Bold Breakthroughs: Capturing Media Attention in a Crowded Landscape

Sara Payne [00:00:10]:

Hello, and welcome back to the Health Marketing Collective, where strong leadership meets marketing excellence. I'm your host, Sara Payne. Today, we're kicking off a series of themed episodes leading up to the health conference in Las Vegas in October, just a few short weeks away. For those of you who don't know, the HLTH or HEALTH conference is the IT conference in the health industry, featuring the who's who of big players and thought leaders innovating the future of health. The theme for this year's conference is be bold. So we're doing a series of episodes all about what it means to be bold in marketing. Today's topic is bold breakthroughs, how to capture media attention in what is a very crowded health care landscape. To join me in the conversation, I've invited one of the industry's top journalists, mister John Lin.

Sara Payne [00:00:58]:

John is the founder and chief editor at HealthCareSCENE, which includes both HealthCare IT Today and SwayHealth, 2 robust communities and content platforms for news, blogs, podcasts, and conferences. Healthcare IT Today is the leading healthcare IT community with over 17,000 articles, 600 podcasts, and a community of over 200,000 followers. It's a real privilege to have you on the show, John. Thanks for being here.

John Lynn [00:01:25]:

Thanks for having me, Sara. I hate hearing my bio, but I appreciate you inviting me on to share our perspectives.

Sara Payne [00:01:32]:

Always a little awkward, isn't it, John, to have to hear that about ourselves? But, no. You're a real pro at this. 600 podcasts?

John Lynn [00:01:41]:

Yeah. I can't really keep up on the count. You know, it's interesting how you know, the 17,000 articles, I think I feel more than the videos. Although, you know, it it's interesting. You know, I guess it's one of those lessons that you learn in life that if you just consistently do something, the numbers aggregate themselves. And so I think there's a beauty to that that I've certainly experienced.

Sara Payne [00:02:04]:

Yeah. So pick the the theme today really is kind of focused in on that health conference theme of be bold. And I I wanted to start by asking you, John, what does being bold mean to you? What do bold brands look like to you? Yeah.

John Lynn [00:02:19]:

I think it's interesting because you are a 100% right that there is a lot of noise in the industry. And I would say that most health organizations are going after fewer and fewer journalists, bloggers, influencers, etcetera. And so there's this, like, disconnect between the number of people that have something to say and the number of people that are going to share your message with the audience that you're looking to go after. And so I I think you have to be bold, but the problem is how can you be bold when everyone is saying everything? Like, literally every solution at health is gonna be an AI powered solution that can solve burning.

Sara Payne [00:03:03]:

Yes.

John Lynn [00:03:03]:

Right? Like, that that that is a challenging thing for any health care organization that's trying to stand out. And so, ironically, one of the ways to be bold may be to actually be something different. Maybe it's to actually speak softer about what's happening, but really speak to the pain points that an organization is feeling. And so, you know, I think that's maybe one way to approach it is to say, hey. Everyone else is saying that we're an AI solution and burnout's a problem. Cybersecurity is an issue, etcetera, etcetera. Right? How can I say something that is different and that maybe, you know, you know, I and we, you know, at HealthCare IT Today, one of our focuses is always like, how can I be useful to the CIO? And so instead of saying we can do this, change your message and say, I know what your problem is because I've talked to 10 CIOs that are all our customer, and your real problem is x y z. And that actually may be the boldest message you could offer rather than we do x y z, which, by the way, is, like, Sway Health is our marketing community.

John Lynn [00:04:15]:

If I were to write a Bible, that would be probably the first page of the Bible, which is nobody cares about you. They only care about what you can do for them.

Sara Payne [00:04:23]:

So, you

John Lynn [00:04:23]:

know, be bold and saying, I understand your problem, and here's what your problem is, may be the boldest thing you could do.

Sara Payne [00:04:31]:

I love that point, and I think you're right. I think there is I'm gonna call it sort of this this gloss or this varnish that, you know, a lot of the the solutions and the companies have today, which is we we all have to say these these combination of buzzwords. Right? It has to say AI. It has to say, to your point, it solves burnout. Whatever that combination of of buzzwords is in your particular space, you gotta combine those things, but we're not getting to the realness of the differentiated way that your company is specifically solving that problem. And I love your point about really talking about it from the customer's point of view. Right? Not, I have this wonderful great thing over here, x on the shelf that you really need. It's more, I understand your problem.

Sara Payne [00:05:20]:

And if I were in your shoes, here's how I would go about solving it. And, oh, by the way, I I I have a solution that does something like that, but really coming at it from from their perspective.

John Lynn [00:05:32]:

Absolutely. And I think the other problem is that when you go to an event like health, there is such a wide variety of perspectives. And you have to like, okay. So we're gonna have payers there. We're gonna have pharma there. We're gonna have provider organizations there. And it's like, how can I make sure I find my target audience if I'm someone who just sells to provider organizations? Or, you know, it's interesting. You know, you talk about some of the boosts.

John Lynn [00:06:01]:

Many of the boosts sell to the other health IT vendors that are exhibiting. And so, you know, that's a very different approach that you have to take, and you have to take a different boldness. You know, I'll I'll throw one other thing since we're talking conferences. And we actually this is kind of ripped from the headlines at the, recent Black Hat Conference. A number of of these security vendors were trying to be bold. They were trying to stand out. And one of them had these ladies in shades, like, literally human, you know, women in the same state with these lampshades on their head. And when you look at it, you think it really is just a lampshade, but it's actually a human inside of it.

John Lynn [00:06:40]:

And there was another one that did another, you know, somewhat egregious thing, you know, you know, essentially, it's the old school booth babe type of approach. And so they both, you know, tried to be bold. They were trying to make a case for, you know, why you need to address security and why they they were trying to get the attention of the people there, and they did it in a really bad way. So you have to be careful on how you're bold. Right? I think it's one thing to be bold in your stance and your perspective on where the industry is going and what the industry needs. But in this day and age, it's amazing that someone thought it would be okay to do be bold in a way that was quite sexist and misogynistic and and, you know, a bunch of other things you don't wanna be associated with. So you have to be careful in how you're bold.

Sara Payne [00:07:29]:

Yeah. Agreed. When you first said shades, I was thinking sunglasses. But you No. The lampshade.

John Lynn [00:07:35]:

Literally a lampshade on these women. It's sad.

Sara Payne [00:07:39]:

Interesting approach. Yeah. I mean, I think, I think being bold means 2 things to me. It means a willingness to talk about something other than yourself and to a willingness to say the things that need to be said. Right. I think that, you know, not trying to please all people really getting to, there are some major issues in healthcare that need to be addressed. Right? And you've got all these different stakeholder groups, that are all trying to carve out their their portion of the revenue opportunity. And and let's be real, sometimes we have a solution that maybe isn't going to leave one of those stakeholder groups in the best position cushy position they're in today.

Sara Payne [00:08:25]:

And I think sometimes we have to be willing to have those conversations as well.

John Lynn [00:08:31]:

Yep. Absolutely.

Sara Payne [00:08:33]:

So I would talk a little bit more about about health. I know I know you go and you publish lots of news coming out of the conference. It it it's a big job. So many conversations happening over those few days, the number of panels, the keynotes, the press announcements that are happening. How do you and your colleagues decide how to spend your time at the conference, and which stories are gonna get covered? Like, how do you do all of that, John? And sort of, like, how do you think about prioritizing your time heading into a big conference?

John Lynn [00:09:06]:

Yeah. Well, thankfully, we have a a great team that, is behind me doing a lot of the hard work and heavy lifting. You know, I think we did 50 videos last year Wow. With their vibe. I forget which one's which. But, anyway, we did a lot of videos, right, and a lot of capturing of that. And so, yeah, I mean, credit to my team behind me that processes it, publishes it, does a lot of the work along with me. But I you know, when it comes to how do we choose, I'd say there's a number of things.

John Lynn [00:09:35]:

The first one is, for me, it's all about people. I sessions for me are not that interesting. Maybe I'll hit 1 or 2. I I, you know, I live, eat, breathe, and sleep this stuff, so it's pretty rare that a session is actually that interesting to me. I'd rather connect with people and ask the questions that I wanna ask rather than, quite frankly, some of the terrible questions that get asked on stage. So, you know, I and maybe that that's a little bit of, you know, spoiled journalist, that people will answer our questions, right, when we wanted. So it's kinda nice that, you know, we can have that opportunity to ask the questions that we want. You know, so I guess that's the first thing.

John Lynn [00:10:13]:

The second one is I'm going to it without any agenda. My agenda is to discover what the messages are that are gonna be useful to the CIO, to the IT director, to, you know, the IT professionals at health care organizations. And so I don't really have an agenda other than to find useful content for them. I will say it's evolved a bit. You know, certainly, we do a lot of paid, you know, sponsorship and paid content with different people. And so, you know, that's actually probably our first line of scheduling as we schedule the paid ones. And so, you know, I actually see the paid stuff not as changing what we would cover about that company, but it changes the priority so we do schedule you first. And so Sure.

John Lynn [00:10:56]:

You know, it's it's a different way of looking at it. And, you know, if someone were coming and saying, hey, I wanna pay for a video with you to pitch our our company. I'd be like, no. That's not what we do because that's not gonna be good for me, and it's not gonna be good for you. Because if you're a health IT company, we need to share your stories. We need to share the value that you created. We need to show that you are an expert of whatever you're talking about, and then that will be the best way to sell your company. So, anyways, that's, you know, I guess, an evolution of the media industry that we definitely, you know, schedule all the paid stuff first.

John Lynn [00:11:26]:

That changes the priority for us. And then after we finished, you know, scheduling the paid opportunities that we're gonna do, then we look at the editorial opportunities. Yeah. I feel bad for people like yourself and other PR agencies that pitch us because my response is, hey. We're scheduling the paid. And, you know, about a week or two out, then we'll look at the editorial. And so Yeah. You know, that is just the reality for us these days as far as we do.

John Lynn [00:11:54]:

But then once we get to the editorial, I look at it in I look at it in 2 ways. 1 is, is it a hardcore topic that I love like Ambient Clinical Voice, and I've never talked to that company before. I might, you know, schedule someone like that. The second one is really about the person, I think, even more Mhmm. Than the company. Although, maybe it's if it's a company we've talked to a dozen times, that's, you know, a different story, I guess. But, you know, I wanna see who is that person, and what could they share with us if we have them hop on video? You know, I wanna know that information, and and I kind of evaluated on that. Sure.

John Lynn [00:12:29]:

Is the company doing something interesting? Are they in our space? You know, if you if you pitch me a pharma clinical trials company, I'm probably gonna ignore it because we don't really do that. We do the provider side. So, you know, that's that's obviously an easier filter. And then as you go down the path, we also do, what we call our bonus features, which is where we feature, like, the announcements that are happening at the conference. And so for that, I might just take your press release, ship it over to my colleague, Brian, who does the bonus features, and then he includes that in kind of this roundup article of all the big announcements that happened at the conference.

Sara Payne [00:13:04]:

Yeah. Well, I love I don't think you have to be apologetic at all about your approach. You know, I mean, you said you feel bad for, right, the the PR reps out there that are trying to get get time with you. But I think I love that you guys are straight straightforward about it. Right? Like, this is the approach that that y'all have chosen to take, and and I think being, straightforward just helps people understand. Right? And then and then, you know, the there's an option. Right? You can either choose to be part of the the sponsorship route or not. Right? So and then you you mentioned I wanted to go back to, the point you made about terrible questions being asked on these panels because health in particular invites a lot of journalists to moderate those those panels.

Sara Payne [00:13:49]:

And, you know, some are are would be more sort of, you know, like, competitors to to yours and some not. Right? Because they would be just different. They're they're going after they have a different audience. How do you think how would you if you were charged with reformatting that, right, or or coming up with the approach for how those what questions are gonna get asked, how they're gonna get asked, whatever, how would you change that to, in your mind, shift from what are they too much softball questions? Do they need to get harder hitting? Like, what would you do if you were working with the organizers of these conferences to improve some of the quality of what's coming out of those panel discussions?

John Lynn [00:14:31]:

Yeah. I mean, I think there's a couple aspects to this. And the first is that health's doing a good job. So I I don't I don't think they necessarily need my advice. You know, they they have a model that's working, and their model is bring big names. Right? They want the biggest names. And if it's not a big name, they want a big name company, which is similar to a big name. Right? So either they need a big name company or big name, and they wanna put as many of those big names on stage as possible.

John Lynn [00:14:56]:

And, you know, and then they often go and get the big name publication, which aren't competitors with us at all, but also don't know the health care industry. So I think sometimes that's a miss, depending on who they who they get. Right? You know, it's great if you could have, you know, one of the, you know, news agencies, you know, NBC, Today Show, people interviewing on stage because it feels like a big name, but they don't really understand the health care industry. So for me, that falls flat. But he also you know, health obviously has to take into account they don't even need to cater to me, frankly.

Sara Payne [00:15:29]:

You know? Like, they're just trying to I hear what you're saying. Right? Yeah.

John Lynn [00:15:33]:

And I am someone who lives, zebras, and sleeps this. Right? Whereas, you know, maybe the CIO at an organization may find that interesting. And then, also, you have to remember that what they're doing in many regards is entertainment. You know? And so what they're doing is trying to entertain. And so if entertainment is your goal, then that's great. And, you know, I may even go to some of the entertaining sessions. I've been to a lot of, you know, the comedy ones where it's like, this has nothing to do with health care IT or health care at all. But,

Sara Payne [00:16:03]:

hey, I'm just It's John taking a break from covering the hard hitting news at the conference. Put your feet up for a second.

John Lynn [00:16:10]:

Exactly. But no. I mean, as you go down the the level though, I would say, you know, for me, the goal is having people who understand the depth of understanding of the topic and are are willing to go into that deep level. And I think that is the problem, and this is true at every conference. This is not just health. In fact, some conferences are much worse than health at this. You know, the ones that are, like, 9 months out to even get a session. You're like, you want me to submit a cutting edge session that's

Sara Payne [00:16:39]:

Right.

John Lynn [00:16:39]:

9 months out, and somehow you're you know, I'm gonna have to present and my slides are due 4 months before it, and I can't change it. Like, that that just doesn't make sense to me at all with how quickly technology is moving. But, anyway, if you move beyond that, to me, the question is, are they willing to dive into the stuff at a deep level and not just say the same things that we've heard at 6,000 other conferences? Yep. And that's what I think people have a a desire for. And that that's where you get frustrated is when you're you've heard the same phrase over and over. If you've seen 1 insure 1 per health care provider, 1 Epic install, you've only seen 1. Right? You know, they're all different. You know, that that that kind of stuff that we've all heard, no one wants to hear it again.

Sara Payne [00:17:27]:

Yeah. I agree. I agree. Well, so step broadening the conversation a bit beyond health. Obviously, it is a noisy conference as you've said, but health care in general, it is is noisy. And to your point, there's a proliferation of AI solutions out there, so much news all the time. From my perspective, it feels like the news cycle has gotten a lot more I'm gonna call it competitive. That's the word I'm gonna use from my perspective than it used to be.

Sara Payne [00:17:55]:

I know we've heard stories about newsroom layoffs and shrinking newsrooms. As a journalist, what's your take on how the press landscape has changed in recent years, you know, the the sort of pressure on the business model and that sort of thing? Is this really happening? Is is it optics that it feels more competitive, or is it actually there's a number of things that are that we can point to and say, yeah, actually, it it is more competitive?

John Lynn [00:18:19]:

It's definitely more competitive, and they're disappearing all the time. The business model's hard. It's it's hard to create a business that works in media, and we see that. And And the old structures, you know, of paying, you know, huge salaries to these journalists is a really tough one. You know, just being frank. You know, we can get content for $100 an article or $50 an article. It's like, that's not a livable wage. Right? Like, that and so how do you do that? So, we're seeing those pressures.

John Lynn [00:18:51]:

I mean, let's use a, you know, a recent conference that I went to. In the past, there would be 30 journalists there. When I went, I think there was 2 of us.

Sara Payne [00:19:01]:

Wow.

John Lynn [00:19:01]:

2 of us at a conference that usually had 30. Right? Like, it it's amazing how small it's gotten. And I think it what's even more so the case, they aren't traveling to the conferences. So they're they may even be there, and they may still be covering health care technology or revenue cycle or whatever, but they're not going to the conference. So they're just not seeing the value of going there, which ironically, we're going to more and more conferences. We're going to a lot of user conferences, which is also an interesting trend. A lot of, the people who would normally go to conferences are going to their user conference. Because if you're a provider organization and you're trying to justify budget, it's hard to justify budget to the large behemoth conference that's around whatever versus a user conference where you're like, 90% of my day, I'm using this software.

John Lynn [00:19:52]:

I need to go to that user conference because this is really impactful to my organization so they can justify it. So, yeah, it's it's definitely a problem. You know, on the Sway Health side of things, every year at our conference, at our annual conference, we do a media panel. And it's a press panel. You get to talk to the media, get ask your questions. They get to, you know, air their gripes and say stop doing this. It annoys me. Right?

Sara Payne [00:20:17]:

Yeah. Right. Fair.

John Lynn [00:20:18]:

A very popular session, but I'll say it's harder and harder to fill because there's just not as many news organizations for us to be able to tap into to come and beyond that. So a a 100%, it's a it's a challenge. And, you know, and you there but here's the other side of it. We are seeing this, like, rising tide of influencers. We have initially, it was like social media influencers, which is still somewhat the case. Although, you know, Twitter's definitely taken a hit and, you know, but LinkedIn influencers, we're seeing the expansion of newsletters. So these newsletters are essentially media organizations for many people, and they're putting out some really great content there. You know, obviously, the the blowing up of Podcast, it seems like everyone has a Podcast these days.

John Lynn [00:21:08]:

Although, you know, you have to look at it kind of like in the early days of blogs, in the early days of social. You're like, okay, who has real followers and who just creates great content, but no one reads it, you know? Yeah. Here's a fun little story for you. We started a company called Influential Networks, which ended up kind of being the predecessor to our sponsored content programs at Healthcare IT Today. K. But the idea of influential networks is like, let's put all the bloggers into a network and let's you know, I already have connections to all these advertisers. And, you know, some of these blogs have lab stuff. Well, I don't really write about lab stuff, so we could sell a lab company, you know, their stuff using the influential networks with content and ads and all that.

John Lynn [00:21:50]:

Right? Yeah. Correct. We aggregated all the health IT blogs into this influential networks. And then what we told them is we said, hey, we want to put a ad on there, and we're just going to co promote each other. But at least then it would give us some data to know, like, okay, who has what traffic so that we can sell you appropriately? Because I don't wanna be selling a $10,000 package if you're getting 50 views a day. Right? Like, that doesn't work for either of us. Right? That's gonna hurt you. So we put them in network, we put ads on each one, and we then we looked at the data.

John Lynn [00:22:21]:

And the shocking thing was there was only one company in all of the blogs that had any data that was meaningful. And the one company that was there was more of a pharma one, and they actually had some advertisers and were doing quite well. Everyone else, turns out, they created amazing content. Like, you'd look at it and you're like, you guys are spending so much time creating great content, but no one's reading it. And so, unfortunately, we you know, there wasn't much we could do. We sold a few, you know, speaker packages at at conferences or we combine it with health care IT today, which did have more readership and whatnot. But it was just like, wow. Okay.

John Lynn [00:22:59]:

You guys are killing it. You're killing yourselves on creating this great content, but no one's reading it. It was kinda sad.

Sara Payne [00:23:06]:

Yeah. Well, I was gonna ask you. You've kind of already gone in that direction in a couple of different levels. Like, you know, there's there's been quite an evolution in in in pea people's consumption habits. Right? We've seen the explosion of of the podcast format. And how do you all look at that, you know, in terms of adapting your reporting styles, you know, the editorial approach to to meet the preferences of your audience. Are there certain, you know, formats that you you find work really well in particular for your audience? And then how do brands make sure they're giving you the type of content that you need?

John Lynn [00:23:45]:

I mean, I think there's a couple of things. 1, the the biggest shift we've seen, and you we we kinda saw it in this first stats you shared about us. We've published 17,000 articles and 6, 700 podcast slash videos. All of our podcasts are videos as well. Yeah. There's, like, we're already on. Why don't we do videos? This doesn't make sense. Let's do both.

John Lynn [00:24:04]:

Right? And so we have. But, you know, if you would have pitched me 4 years ago, 5 years ago, I would have been an article first kind of guy. Oh, maybe I'll do an interview. Maybe I'll do a meeting, whatever. Right? And let's do an article, send me a quote, you know, things like that. Now if you pitch me and I decide, oh, I like this company, I'm gonna say, do you wanna do a video? So we've switched from being content article written word first to now being video podcast first. So if I wanna tell a story, I'm like, let's just hop on the video. And to be fair, we've kind of created a machine that lets me really easily do a video, and then it becomes an article and a video and a podcast and goes on our newsletter on social.

John Lynn [00:24:47]:

So I'd say that for us is the the biggest change is that if I'm gonna do something, I'm probably gonna do a video. Or, you know, occasionally, I'll do some reviews of products. So I'm still doing that, and we're we've been doing more and more reviews of products where we can try it out, especially when it's more of a direct to consumer fit. We're doing more of that as well. But that's been a huge change. The other change that I think is interesting is how we're syndicating the content. Mhmm. So before, it used to be how many page views do you get, you know, to an article? How many, you know, video views? How many downloads? Those are all great.

John Lynn [00:25:25]:

You know, how many email subscribers do you have on your your newsletter? I wanna know that information. And now we're actually sharing a lot more information. Obviously, this is more with our paid, so I think that the unpaid probably care about it in a similar fashion is how many views are you getting of that clip that you shared from the video on social media?

Sara Payne [00:25:46]:

Right.

John Lynn [00:25:46]:

Right? And how many views are you getting there? And and and and it's not even how many YouTube followers you have, it's how many views did that actual that that our video get on that because we have all that data now. And so that's changing. How many Instagram views are we getting? How many TikTok views are we getting of that video? I don't care if you have 6,000, you know, followers. If you're only getting 10 views, that doesn't matter. Right? Or, you know, we actually just did an analysis. So I'll give you a little deep dive into what we're doing. But for our you know, and this was obviously our paid videos that we were doing the analysis of. But our paid videos average 4,000 video views from what from us sharing.

John Lynn [00:26:26]:

And this includes LinkedIn, Twitter, Instagram, TikTok, and YouTube. Right? So it's across those 5 platforms, and, you know, it gets 4,000 views. Now you have to look at that and you say, okay. Well, what's the average view for a health care b to b content? Well, you know, if we compare to non b to b, 4,000 is not a lot. Right? You need the millions. But in health care content, if you get a 100 views on a b to b health care IT content, you're doing pretty well. Right? So

Sara Payne [00:26:56]:

Agreed.

John Lynn [00:26:57]:

I think that's interesting. That's maybe the evolution as well as far as how are people consuming it. I I call it the ADD generation that wants the quick hit. That's all we have time for. You know, we don't have time to go and do it. Or if we do, maybe the quick hit is like that gateway drugs through the longer form content that says, oh, I'm gonna watch your 1 minute video and, you know, I enjoyed it. Oh, let's watch the whole 20 minute one or 30 minute one. So that's, I think, maybe how we've evolved is that we have to cater to that person who just wants a quick hit of health care IT and not necessarily wants to dive into this, you know, 20,000 word essay that's gonna dive into every every element of what you're offering.

John Lynn [00:27:43]:

And, you know, just to finish off with one other thing, it's interesting how that's evolved even for Google. Google loved long form content. They wanted the article that dove into every aspect of every detail of that topic because that's who they wanted to send, but that's evolving as well. So it will be interesting to see how that continues to evolve, especially because many of us aren't going to Google anymore. We're going to the social platforms.

Sara Payne [00:28:08]:

Yeah. That is an interesting, comparison there as well. And I think, you know, the other thing that video does, it goes back to your point about connecting with people. Right? So it's it's not just a story. It is it is the people. People wanna buy from people. Right? They don't just wanna buy from a a brand or a company. They wanna buy from a person.

Sara Payne [00:28:29]:

And I think there's this element of additional sort of trust and understanding in a relationship, that happens through that. And so I think that, you know, the proliferation of of technology that allows us to to do podcasts and and and video conferencing so easily gives us that additional benefit of of, you know, developing what feels like a relationship. I mean, I don't know about you, but I've listened to a ton of podcasts where I've never met the host, but you sort of feel like you're friends with the host. Like, you know, in some weird way because you you spend time with them on your drive or or wherever your your workout, wherever it is you're consuming this content, and and you come to rely on them. And there's a relationship there.

John Lynn [00:29:13]:

Yeah. A couple of things there. 1, here's a quick story. I was walking down the swag line at Chime, the CIO conference, and the CIO sees me. He's like, hey, John. I know you. And I look at him and I mean, he's a tall Norwegian guy. Like, I would have remembered him.

John Lynn [00:29:29]:

You know? Like Sure. I don't know him. Right? Like, I'm like and luckily he bailed me out. Right? He's like, well, I don't know you, but I listen to you

Sara Payne [00:29:37]:

every morning. You.

John Lynn [00:29:39]:

You're like like, every morning, you and that other guy, Colin. Yeah. Colin. Colin. Yeah. Yeah. You and Colin. I listen to you every morning and you're like, you know, I get my coffee and I listen to what you're doing and I I hear what's going on.

John Lynn [00:29:51]:

He's like but it was funny. He, like, reacted as if he knew me exactly what you said. Right? And and so I think that's beautiful. But you said something else really interesting, which is authenticity and connecting with humans. And we we go through this a lot when we talk to people, and we say we don't want what we did do to be too polished. Because if it's

Sara Payne [00:30:16]:

too polished,

John Lynn [00:30:17]:

it comes off as inauthentic. And we know how you know, there's a lot of health IT publications out there that produce a beautifully polished produced product. Right? And my question to them always is like, is that what you want? Is that achieving the goal that you want? And for us and the people who work with us, they understand that what we are gonna produce is 2 people sitting in a bar at a conference talking about what really matters. And that's who they want. You know, it goes back to George Bush. Right? He he was the guy you wanted to have a beer with, is what everyone said. And that's why he was successful is because people like having a beer with someone and like having a real conversation rather than this produce thing that I feel like the marketing team put together, you know, to try to sell me on something. There there's a big difference.

John Lynn [00:31:12]:

You know, I stole a a word from, our Sway Health community called Rawthentic, which is it's raw enough that it's Love that. And so that's what we shoot for with our, you know and and this is an evolution as well, I think, in consumption habits. Before, people did want that produced, you know, edited, you know, thing. But I think now, especially in the b to b market, they want something you you need a a level of quality that's high enough to that that they're like, okay. This isn't just some, you know, fly by night operation, but you but you also need a level of authenticity and humanity in your discussion to be able to relate to that person and to have them believe what you're saying. Like, for example, I tell people, hey. Here's some seed questions, and we're not afraid to give seed questions. It's like Sure.

John Lynn [00:32:05]:

That's good. It gives you time to think about what's gonna be talked about. That's good.

Sara Payne [00:32:09]:

And be thoughtful in your approach. Yeah.

John Lynn [00:32:11]:

Yeah. Exactly. I was like, but and you should you could even write out your answers, but then you need to throw it away.

Sara Payne [00:32:17]:

Yeah.

John Lynn [00:32:17]:

Because if you have to admit to me, that is the last thing you want. Right? So it's fine to prepare and write out those answers. It's even fine to have a couple bullet points. Oh, yeah. I wanted to talk about that. That's fine. But I I've only had one where I was just like, she is reading to me. And it was awful.

John Lynn [00:32:36]:

I I was just like, I can't do this. And then I asked her a question that wasn't on the list, and she was beautifully authentic. She knew

Sara Payne [00:32:44]:

the content.

John Lynn [00:32:45]:

She she knew what to say, but her company had forced her to read this and it made for an awful video. And so, anyway, that's a part of that evolution as well. You know, just to offer one last line, what I tell people is, like, if you have to prepare a lot for a video with us, then we either have the wrong person or we have the wrong questions. And so we need to adjust it because you should know this well enough that you don't need a lot of preparation. A little bit, sure, to think through it, to think through the plethora of examples you have and which one might be best. That's fine. But otherwise, you should be able to do this pretty cold.

Sara Payne [00:33:25]:

I agree. I think this is a great takeaway for marketing leaders listening in who, you know, it's their job to prepare spokespersons, for for inner spoke people spokespeople for interviews, but also, you know, for for the executives too. I think this is this is really important. It's like you wanna be you you are an expert in your area, in your field, in your niche area. There's a reason why you're being called in. We we have to take away the, you know, say this, but don't say that. And and, you know, here's 6 other rules on top of that because I have seen people flounder in that situation because they've been given too many filters, and they're they're they're thinking about what they're supposed to say and not say.

John Lynn [00:34:08]:

That we want you to incorporate into this answer. And if you don't

Sara Payne [00:34:12]:

Versus having a conversation. Right? And that's what I tell my clients all the time is, like, here's 3 here's 3 bullet points that that actually talk about the thing we're here to talk about today from from a to z. Like, a logical story of, you know, beginning, middle, and an end. That's it. Like, those that's that's what we're here to talk about today, And don't worry about it being this specific sort of end to end perfectly polished, and you give them too many things, and they're gonna they're gonna show up frazzled. Because I think any human being would in that situation. I think there is there is such a thing as as over preparing people. But I think it's also knowing when it's maybe not the right person.

Sara Payne [00:34:52]:

Right? Because it's just they're never maybe they're, like, really great scientist, really great expert, know their shit, but maybe, like, can't it's just not their thing to sit down and be real with John Lynn. Like, that's just not they can't do it.

John Lynn [00:35:08]:

Yeah. That that's fair. Choosing the right person really matters, and personality matters. You know, I have that. Yeah. I mean, it's one of the things we've learned over time is that my energy can transmit to them, but only to a certain level. Right?

Sara Payne [00:35:22]:

Like Sure. Sure.

John Lynn [00:35:23]:

Some people that you can't you you know, you can only infuse so much. Right? But if they see and they feel from the interviewer a certain level of energy, they usually try to match it. And sometimes I have to lower my energy to match theirs too so that it's not overwhelming to them and sometimes I do better than others. But, I think the other thing that's missing here is you do have to understand the publication that you're working with. And I think that's why many people fear the video interview, especially when it's recorded, you know, and you don't wanna go back and do retakes and all this. That they've have in their mind that the journalist is trying to get them. And in some cases, they are. You

Sara Payne [00:36:03]:

should be there. There are journalists that are trying to do it. Very rarely. Right? Like, this isn't 60 minutes. Yeah. I mean, it's never been

John Lynn [00:36:11]:

60 minutes. And, you know, I mean, it's funny you said, you talked about us and our publication, how we approach it. One of the best compliments, I just got an email right before we were recording. They're like, you really are the nicest publication out there. You know, we call ourselves the friendliest media organization in health care IT. And that is our brand, and that's who we are. You know, I joke that my colleague, Colin, is from Canada. And if he's not nice, they kick him out.

John Lynn [00:36:37]:

Right? But it's it's really just who we are as people. And so our goal is to push the industry forward. We don't do breaking news. We don't do investigative journalism. We wanna highlight the successes that people are having and push it forward. That's our identity. That's who we are as people. That's who we are as an organization within health care scene.

John Lynn [00:36:58]:

That's the type of people that we wanna hire. You know, we're not trying to go to drive views because of some salacious story or headline that we did. And so I think that's the other piece of it is going into the interview knowing, hey. This is how John and or Colin or Healthcare IT Today approach content. It can put them at ease, right, in a really big way to say, hey, we're not trying to get you to fumble so that we can, you know, realize that Taylor Swift said this about Travis Kelce. Right? Like, that's not who we are. Right? You know, that's not what we do. Instead, our goal is to highlight the successes and to share some of the challenges to get to those successes.

John Lynn [00:37:41]:

That's fine. Right? Let's be authentic about what it takes and the work that's required, but let's share that in a way. So understanding the publication really matters as well.

Sara Payne [00:37:50]:

Yeah. And I I love that you really kinda went into that whole, like, we're we're not like, we might sit on opposite sides of the table. We're kind of on the same team because what what both sides of the table really care about is helping to educate this audience or or help solve a problem that they have and and introduce them to new solutions that are going to be transformative to them. So it's the same it's really the same goal. Right? And if we think about it that way, if, like, we're we're all trying to collectively move the industry forward through, you know, educate positive educational stuff that actually matters, then then we're on we're on the same sides, and it's not a, you know, gotcha sort of situation. But I will say, John, that you guys are a bit of an anomaly in terms of the the the energy as you described it and the personality that you bring to it. You don't you don't get that from every journalist in in every interview. And sometimes that lack of connection on the other side can can impact an interview because someone's like, oh, gosh, they're really not into it or, you know, are are sometimes I I prepare my clients, it's like sometimes it's just a really green journalist.

Sara Payne [00:38:54]:

Obviously not speaking about you, but they just don't they actually are really intimidated to be interviewing a CEO right now, and they don't they don't know what questions to ask, and so they don't wanna look dumb, and so they're very quiet. Right? They're either over there trying to take a ton of notes, or they're afraid to ask a question that makes them look stupid. And so I prepare them for, you know, the personality of the journalist too, because I do think that that can that can impact an interview. And and and kudos to you and your team for, you know, really doing different with that. And to your point, like, you're probably getting the best out of people based on the energy that you bring. And and you you can't do it for everybody. Right? There's still gonna be some people you can't lift up. But, I I think that's pretty pretty amazing.

Sara Payne [00:39:35]:

And I know our team feels it too when working with you, John. You know, there's there's a lot of journalists that that, you know, can be really rude to work with or, you know, not not responsive. And and I get it. Y'all are busy and not every email is gonna go responded to, but but I think you guys, make a real effort too, relationally, to to work with your sources and and really be respectful to those, resources, which I think it and and sources, which I think is, just really refreshing to see.

John Lynn [00:40:04]:

I mean, I appreciate the kind words, and, it's great to see that, it's felt on the other side. I think what's interesting is that, you know, in many ways, we're almost not journalists, you know. Like, I I joke with people, you know, that you know, like, I'm a journalist when I need a press pass, which is true. And and to be fair, you know, we've published 17,000 articles. Right. You know, we're we're a journalist.

Sara Payne [00:40:26]:

You're the real deal. You are the real deal.

John Lynn [00:40:29]:

But it is interesting. We don't look at it that way. Right? Like, my goal like, we don't have a division of church and state. Like, our goal is to provide value to the CIO and IT leaders at hospitals and health care organizations. And if I can do that, that is the goal. You know? And it doesn't matter if it's paid. It doesn't matter if it's

Sara Payne [00:40:49]:

Sure.

John Lynn [00:40:50]:

Through a PR agency. It doesn't matter if it's direct. It doesn't matter if it's a customer. I mean, that's why a lot of journalists don't want to talk to executives. And I'm like, executives talk to a 1,000 different customers. Sometimes they have the best insights because they're not just getting one customer's little perspective for their little environment. They're talking to 1,000 of them and then they can say, hey. You know, here's 5 different perspectives across these 1,000 CIOs that can provide a lot of value.

John Lynn [00:41:19]:

So, I mean, that's where I think we're lucky is that I always focus on what's the value we can provide the end reader. And if it's valuable, I don't care if it's a to, you know, a vendor and their partner or if it's the customer. Sure. Customers are great. It's great to hear the firsthand, but it you it's okay to embrace all of those things.

Sara Payne [00:41:39]:

Yeah. Absolutely. Love that love that thinking. Well, John, I I our time is coming to an end, but I I will tell you I did not get through all of the questions I wanted to ask you. So might I might have to do a part 2 of this, at some point in time. But before we end, I would like to switch gears for a quick, quick fire segment. I've got 5 questions for you. What is your favorite way to unwind after a long day?

John Lynn [00:42:03]:

After a long day? I mean, it's funny because I go from work to kids, you know, that's Same. Same. You know, I will say, you know, the most therapeutic thing I do is probably playing disc golf. It's you know, I get out and chuck some plastic. It's a nice Love it. Way to just relax, you know, throw the plastic. I get a little exercise as I'm walking around. You know, I prefer ultimate Frisbee.

John Lynn [00:42:27]:

But, you know, to unwind, that's probably the best is, going and playing around the disc golf and getting out in nature a little bit and walking around a little exercise. It's probably the best way for me to unwind at the end of the day.

Sara Payne [00:42:41]:

Yeah. I'll double down on the on the nature aspect of that. If you weren't a journalist, which we you know, you just said sometimes you don't always see yourself that way. But if you weren't a journalist, what would you be?

John Lynn [00:42:53]:

You know, I'm tech guy on Twitter. So I'm a tech guy at heart. So, you know, I really I come from that. Right? I implemented electronic medical record. I did IT support top to bottom. I worked in a lot of data centers. So I probably would do that. You know, if, you know, if health care scene one day gets acquired or something, it's interesting.

John Lynn [00:43:14]:

I don't know if I could get a job in the tech world anymore. I probably could get a job in the marketing world more than the tech. So I guess I probably would be chief marketing officer somewhere if, if not as well. So it's interesting how my career has kind of evolved.

Sara Payne [00:43:29]:

That is that is interesting. May maybe you can be the one that makes, disc golf in in Olympic sport for the next next Summer Olympics.

John Lynn [00:43:39]:

Yeah. I think Ultimate will get there before disc golf because it's a little more ubiquitous across countries. But, yeah, Frisbee in in the Olympics would be awesome. You know, at the end of the day, I'm an entrepreneur. I think that's what I would do. So I like to use technology to create value for people. So that's where I really identify.

Sara Payne [00:43:56]:

I can see that. I can see that's how your how your brain works. What are some of your favorite pod podcasts that you listen to on a regular basis?

John Lynn [00:44:05]:

You know, it's it's pretty funny as someone who has 3 and about to launch a 4th podcast. I don't listen to I don't subscribe to any really regularly. I'm more of a social consumer of podcasts. So I I let the social media determine which are the best episodes of podcasts, and then I listen to them. So I do listen to a lot of different podcasts, but I usually generally let the social media determine it. So, I mean, I have a mixture of some health IT ones that I listen to. You know, Hit Like A Girl is fun to listen to and hear some different perspectives there. You know, I also listen to sports ones.

John Lynn [00:44:42]:

I love a lot of BYU sports stuff, so I'll hit a lot of those. I love Colin Calherd on on kind of the sports side of things. You know, and then, you know, I I definitely like the Kelsey's. You know, I'm all about, Taylor Swift and Travis Kelsey. That that reference was a real one for me. I like seeing what's up with them. They do a good job. In fact, I would say I take a lot of my inspiration for what we do on the Healthcare IT Today various podcasts from sports.

John Lynn [00:45:08]:

Sports does a great job creating content, and I often take inspiration for them for what we do.

Sara Payne [00:45:14]:

I love that. I think you're right. I think coming off of the the Olympics and the massive production and success they had in Paris is is just a great example and illustration of that. They just did a fantastic job, Snoop Dogg, and just creating a lot of sort of entertainment and draw beyond just, you know, the the 40 seconds or the 30 seconds that the athletes were running on the track. So, yeah, I agree with you. A lot of great inspiration for marketers to draw from from that. But I also love your earlier point about finding, podcasts that are worthy to consume based on social media. Another great, piece of advice for marketers.

Sara Payne [00:45:52]:

If you're gonna go to the effort of creating a podcast, making make sure you're putting the most valuable nuggets and snippets on social, and then letting the algorithm, take care of it from there. Last question, John. If you could attend one show or attraction while in Vegas, what would you pick?

John Lynn [00:46:09]:

Oh, you know, I thought you were saying conference, which I'm totally biased to Sway Health, which has often been in Vegas. But, no, you mean, like, a fun show?

Sara Payne [00:46:17]:

Yeah. Like, just for fun. Not not that you got time for that when you're in Vegas covering a conference, but, I mean, let's pretend you did for a second.

John Lynn [00:46:25]:

Well and, you know, it's nice that I live I technically live in Henderson, not Vegas, but 15 minutes from the strip. So, you know, we we actually don't go to shows because when you live local, you wait for the free ticket. But, oh, man. How could I choose? Like, Cirque du Soleil might be the top, but I if I could see Celine Dion in her prime Mhmm. Or possibly Garth Brooks right now. But okay. But all of that aside, any of those are winners, by the way. But I would go to Faith Hill when I did go to Faith Hill when she came to Vegas, and I would go to her because she's my top anything artist.

John Lynn [00:47:01]:

But if you want it, here's one that people won't think about. And and this is Terry Fader. It's a lower cost ticket. The guy is supremely entertaining. He's he has a great comedy writer. He's got music, so you get the music. And by the way, he's doing it all as a ventriloquist, which you're like, wait. Yeah.

John Lynn [00:47:20]:

John's record of mending a ventriloquist? But, yes. It's it's comedy, it's music, and it's like, oh my gosh. He's doing this as a ventriloquist.

Sara Payne [00:47:30]:

Wow. Cool. Well, I feel like I know you a lot better than I did, when we started out the conversation today, John. Thanks so much for being here. Where should listeners go to catch more of your great content?

John Lynn [00:47:42]:

Yeah. So I'd say the best place to go is healthcare it today.com for the health IT listeners out there. You know, we obviously publish a lot of great content there, and you can link to all the podcasts and, like, and subscribe. That would my kids would tell me to do. Then, if you're a health care marketer, be sure to check out Sway dot health. That's Sway with 2 a's. Sway dot health. We have all the same things.

John Lynn [00:48:03]:

Right? A publication, email newsletter, podcast, videos, but all focus on the health care marketing.

Sara Payne [00:48:10]:

Excellent. Be sure to check it out, folks. And if you enjoyed the conversation today, do us a favor and subscribe wherever you get your podcast. That's it for today. Thanks for being a part of the Health Marketing Collective, where strong leadership meets marketing excellence because the future of health care depends on it. I'll catch you in Las Vegas.