The Activation Mindset: How to Empower Teams to Innovate and Execute

Sara Payne [00:00:10]:

Welcome back to the Health Marketing Collective, where strong leadership meets marketing excellence. I'm your host, Sarah Payne, and I'm bringing you fascinating conversations with some of the industry's top marketing minds. Today, we're diving into a topic that every leader, marketer, and innovator wrestles with, how to build a culture that gets things done. My guest is Laura Cave, an experienced early stage health tech marketer who excels at bringing health care products to market and health care stories to life. Laura is currently chief brand officer at Patient, and she's passionate about making health care more affordable and accessible for all. If there's one thing Laura is known for, it's making things happen. From securing powerhouse partnerships to building new tools on the fly, Laura is someone who doesn't wait around for permission. She moves fast, finds a way, and delivers results.

Sara Payne [00:01:04]:

And here's what I find fascinating. Laura has consistently found herself in cultures that value activation. From the knot to Oscar health to patient, she's worked in environments where things don't just sit in a backlog. They get built, tested, and launched. And I have a feeling that's no coincidence. So today, Laura and I will be unpacking how marketing leaders can create an activation driven culture, one that removes roadblocks, empowers teams, and fosters innovation. Laura, welcome to the show.

Laura Cave [00:01:36]:

Thank you so much for having me.

Sara Payne [00:01:39]:

Yes. I'm super excited to have you here today and to dive into all of this rich experience you have being inside of cultures that value activation. Let's start there by defining what we mean when we say activation. I think it's a word that can get thrown around a lot in marketing and in the business. But in your view, what does an activation mindset really mean, Laura?

Laura Cave [00:02:06]:

Absolutely. I know that, everything in marketing can be called an activation, and, and that doesn't mean that it's having an impact. And so what what I have pressed my teams to think about is how do we not just do marketing things, but how do we actually have a business impact? How do we have an effect on the value that we are building for our shareholders, for ourselves as partial owners of this business? And by keeping your eyes on that, it can really save you from doing lots of marketing things that don't really matter. Because in marketing, you can do anything, but you should be choosing the things that are really making an impact. And and part of that is, like, understanding what is the job that needs to be done, and what's the fastest way that I can make that happen even if it's outside of my marketing lane or the marketing tool sets that I have currently, because sometimes the solution is is just past those boundaries. So yeah.

Sara Payne [00:03:16]:

Oh, that was so great. Love that definition and that perspective. And I know that a lot of your mindset comes from your early days, early on in your career, your time at the knot, which Yeah. Really built a brand that brides truly cared about, and they did that through really remarkable ways without spending a lot of money on advertising. And what did you learn there at the knot about the value of community building and moving fast that still influences you today?

Laura Cave [00:03:51]:

Oh my gosh. So much. I really had the honor of, getting hired by, the Knotts, some two of the Knotts' original founders, David Liu and Carly Rohney. And in working with them, I learned so much about what it looks like to just make something happen because they had done it, and they were still doing it. When I joined in 02/2006, they had been around for nine years. They had the two thousand one recession. I was there for the February the February. I was there for the February, and, they grew revenue every year, even through those tough years, even as a media business, which is saying a lot.

Laura Cave [00:04:49]:

And it was because of the way that they had structured their business. So what was really fascinating, and I I keep looking back on the knot and understanding it better as time goes on because they're so early in a lot of what they were doing that it didn't have a name yet. But now I look back and realize, oh, what they were doing was called product led growth. And, of course, it's like all the rage now, but we didn't have a marketing team for years. We didn't have a media budget. We didn't spend money on advertising. We didn't buy our traffic from Google because we were selling that traffic to advertisers. And if they could just go buy it from Google, we knew that was a death sentence.

Laura Cave [00:05:31]:

So we needed to create value that would organically attract the audience that we were serving, and we needed to serve them better than anybody else. And we needed to serve them in every single channel where they were looking for information. So so the classic example is that in the early days, they had theknot.com. And then then, I think some investors had told them, you know what? You guys should advertise so people know to come to theknot.com. You should advertise in the wedding magazines like brides. So they asked for a proposal, and they looked at how much money it was gonna be, and they said, shoot. We could make our own magazine for this. And so they did.

Sara Payne [00:06:13]:

Wow.

Laura Cave [00:06:14]:

And they didn't have that much money. So they had dress forms so that they would show the dresses on dress forms, and they wouldn't have to pay models. I mean, it was very, minimum viable product, another term that was not around yet when they were doing it. But they really took that and ran with it. And then another example later on, they needed to continue to generate organic traffic, and they did that by solving a classic problem in wedding planning, which is for the bride's hairstyle. So they created a hair tool that would allow you to upload a photo of yourself and then switch all the different hairstyles to see which one looked best for your big day. And, of course, this was way before, Facetune and AI and We've

Sara Payne [00:06:59]:

all done it now. We've all done it now, but that's

Laura Cave [00:07:02]:

all the time. It'll AI will make your headshot for you and change your hair color. Anyway, it was, extremely successful at the time. And and all throughout that, the thing that, Carly especially was so brilliant about was just how brand obsessed we were. She taught us all, you know, that everyone is a marketer and that a brand is a promise, and you have to keep your brand promises. And when you do that, you build a relationship with people, and, that really was extremely powerful at the not, the ladies that would connect on their online message boards because nobody wants to hear about your wedding more than another bride. They would plan their weddings together, all the brides getting married in June of twenty twelve would plan their weddings together on the knots message boards and talk about their mother in law's to be and all of that. And then they would become such good legitimate friends, that they would invite each other to each other's weddings.

Laura Cave [00:08:05]:

They would actually attend each other's weddings in real life. They call themselves the naughties, and they would have naughty get togethers at the local TGI Fridays. And that's always been, the pinnacle of what I've aspired to create when we're working with brands is something that people wanna identify with, that they wanna communicate, with others, that that builds a tribe of people who care about the same things. And, so that's that's inspired me all along my way in in what eventually became a a journey in health care marketing.

Sara Payne [00:08:37]:

Yeah. Such fascinating stories. And, you know, we we've done some work together, but I haven't heard some of these things from you. And I think to myself, how lucky were you? Right? And I'm sure you feel the same way. How lucky were you to have gone through and experienced some of these things and, you know, that were well ahead of their time and, frankly, are core principles of smart content marketing and thought leadership today. Right? Deliver value to your audience, and they won't feel like they're even being marketed to. Right? No.

Laura Cave [00:09:12]:

Because you're not selling it. Right. You're serving them.

Sara Payne [00:09:16]:

For

Laura Cave [00:09:16]:

me. Yeah. There's a whole tribe of us that count, David and Carly as our business mom and dad because they they really taught so many of us. And, yeah, David would always say, okay. It's time to pull a rabbit out of a hat. What can we make? What can we do? And, seeing that modeled was was a big part of of how I've been able to do some of these things.

Sara Payne [00:09:38]:

Yeah. Absolutely. And I mentioned earlier, you also spent some time at Oscar Health. Mhmm. What did you carry forward from your time at the knot to Oscar? Was there a moment or a project at Oscar where you really helped turn an idea into reality on a really rapid timeline?

Laura Cave [00:09:58]:

Yeah. There were a lot of things that we were experimenting with. I joined during the second open enrollment they'd ever had for the ACA, marketplaces, and I was originally on the phone with members for about six months helping them sign up for their plans. So I was a licensed producer. I didn't know when I signed up for the job that I would have to get a license. And so I

Sara Payne [00:10:20]:

had to

Laura Cave [00:10:20]:

take a very intimidating test. And then I was on the phone helping people understand and choose their health plan. And I just became absolutely obsessed with solving this problem. Yeah. And I think it's one of the biggest challenges facing our generation is how we are going to afford health care in The United States. And, that's been driving me for the last ten years ever since that time. And there were a ton of brilliant people there during those early years and still today, of course. And we played with all kinds of interesting things.

Laura Cave [00:10:55]:

At that time, it was new that you could stay on your parents' insurance plan until you were 26. And so I found out that you could buy a list from the United States Postal Service of people that included their birthdays. And so I was like, I think we should send them birthday cards and say happy birthday. You have to get your own insurance now. We can help.

Sara Payne [00:11:16]:

You're a grown up. It's official.

Laura Cave [00:11:18]:

Yeah. I don't know if that would ever work either, but I was really jazzed about it for a minute. But another one that comes to mind is, we were looking at ways that we can incentivize people to get their flu shot. Obviously, in a community like New York City where, you're on the subway and passing by people, and, there's a lot of germs exchanged in that as we all know, now that we are sort of post COVID, but this was way before that. Yeah. And what they had done Oscar was extremely innovative, and they had already done a kind of rewards program for their flu shot in the fall, and they had given out, I don't remember what it was, maybe a $5 gift card to Amazon or something like that. And I had this hypothesis that we could donate something charitable for the action of getting a flu shot and potentially have people do the right thing for themselves and others, and not have to pay people to do what do the right thing.

Sara Payne [00:12:24]:

Yeah.

Laura Cave [00:12:25]:

And, so to so to work on this, I got in touch with UNICEF and learned that they had a program where they were, funding and resourcing local crews of doctors to visit children who were in refugee camps because this was during the time of the Syrian refugee crisis. Yeah. And, the whole world was very gripped by the scenes of people, trying to make their way to Europe during this time. And there were a lot of really big humanitarian needs. And so it was, a no brainer to partner with them. And so the pitch was if you get your flu shot, a child will be seen by a doctor and get a medical exam. And we ran the campaign in January and February, which is not the prime time for flu shot season, but we were trying to convert the the laggards, not the early adopters. And, we did see, I think, thousands of flu shots, from our members during that time.

Laura Cave [00:13:29]:

And, what we were able to do was to measure how much did this activity bump the trend off of the norm and found out that the charitable program achieved actually more than the cash rewards program, and I was really proud that my hypothesis was correct.

Sara Payne [00:13:47]:

Yes. Your hypothesis was right. That's amazing. I love that story. And this this, experience you had, exposure you had helping people get care affordably now has become a through line in your career and, your current role at Patient. And and one of the things that I admire about your current company, Patient, is that when you see a need, when the company, the team, the executives see a need, you guys go and build the thing.

Laura Cave [00:14:21]:

Yeah.

Sara Payne [00:14:22]:

And a perfect example of that is the work you did, again, we're talking about enrollment here, but around enrollment for the Medicare prescription payment plan, which is known as m three p for short. For anyone who's unfamiliar with this, this is a new benefit that just launched in January that helps Medicare beneficiaries better afford their prescription drug costs by giving them more time to pay. And millions of seniors are eligible for this program, but CMS has done very little to educate people about how to enroll, which leaves people just sort of confused. They either don't know they have access to this program or they'd act they know about it, but they don't know how to enroll in it. Take us behind the scenes. Patients saw this gap, stepped in to make enrollment easier. Talk about the solution that you developed and and a bit about how that solution went from idea to execution.

Laura Cave [00:15:17]:

Yeah. And I think it's worth even backing up a little bit before, m three p. Before I get into what we've done there, you know, this is, again, being modeled at the leadership level. Our CEO was a hospital administrator for fifteen years, and he really saw the impact of, uncompensated care and what it did to the health system, that the collections department was bigger than the surgery department, and that we could do amazing things for the health of a patient, but then we would be saddling them with a financial burden that they didn't have before. And it just didn't sit right. And he did something about it, and he built the patient card, and he linked his own bank account to it that people were spending off of his own money in the beginning.

Sara Payne [00:16:07]:

That's insane. Yeah.

Laura Cave [00:16:09]:

I mean, it's incredible. Brian Brian Worley is our CEO and founder, and he he's the biggest believer in the need for access and affordability solutions. And he so he built the core product, which is the patient purple patient Visa card that you see on our website. But then along came a another type of partner that was building an alternative style of health plan that would pay the provider upfront the portion that was the patient's responsibility and bill the patient later for that. And it was a different application of our technology, but we did it in a white label kind of capacity through an API, and they were able to use our technology to fund the financing and and operate the financing portion of the health plan. And, and so that was running for years, come to learn in 2022 that the Medicare prescription payment plan was passed as part of the Inflation Reduction Act. And then in 2023, we saw the first CMS guidance about how this program should work, and we looked at it and we said, that's what our technology already does. Yeah.

Laura Cave [00:17:16]:

That's so cool. We had been willing to solve a problem in the market early. We were finding we're finding now all kinds of applications for that. So that still is our core business. But as part of that, we looked at the Medicare prescription payment plan and said, we've got an awareness problem here where, our technology is being used by 40% of the market. All Medicare part d prescription drug plans are required to offer this option to be billed over time for your out of pocket costs for your prescription drugs. And it's gonna be incredibly impactful for a huge part of the market that just appreciates the flexibility to be able to pay at the end of the month after they get their check or to be able to pay over a few months to satisfy, you know, an expense related to a new or unexpected drug. There's just so much flexibility in the program that I think once seniors learn it, they're they're really going to to love it.

Laura Cave [00:18:16]:

And, but in the meantime, we've got to make sure that they know about it. So we've got an awareness issue. And then we also started to hear that there was friction around the actual sign up process, which sits with the health plans, and is facilitated by phone, mail, online, but mail is slow. The phone experience, we heard from some brokers that the average time to help someone sign up for m three p was a through a ninety minute three way

Sara Payne [00:18:47]:

call. Oh. Yeah. And Terrible experience.

Laura Cave [00:18:51]:

A ton yeah. Terrible experience, really inefficient and costly for both the broker and the Yes. And then a lot of the, online, opt in locations were sort of buried in websites or behind a password or just not really easily accessible. So, we wanted to solve the awareness problem. But other than just sort of brand advertising for a public program, we weren't really in a position to be able to add more value. So we kept thinking about that, and what we realized was that there was a way that we could pull together all the paper forms, the digital version of all the paper opt in forms for every part d plan, because it was important to us that if we built an opt in tool that it would work for the whole market, not just our clients. And we pulled all of that together and created a way for someone to fill out, the form as basically a digital PDF that could be electronically signed securely and transmitted securely to the plans. And we were using their form that they've made publicly available with all of its requisite terms and conditions and everything else.

Laura Cave [00:20:05]:

And, this was a absolute team effort. The people who figured this out, that was not me, but they figured it out and they built it very quickly because they were able to use some off the shelf tools that weren't around. And, you know, in the nots days, you had to actually code your hair tool yourself. Sure. Now now there are enough tools that you could bolt together an experience like this in a matter of weeks, not months. And so we did that over basically the month of December. And by early January, we had a landing page. And our marketing team had previously invested in really flexible web tools that would allow us to spin up a landing page in a week.

Laura Cave [00:20:47]:

We had video, we had, other downloadable assets, FAQs, things like that. And all of a sudden, we had a product experience. And what was brilliant about that is it solved the need for a real CTA to be able to see a call to action to be able to see the conversion and measure the return on our ad spend, not purely as brand awareness, but now as actually driving opt ins.

Sara Payne [00:21:14]:

Yes.

Laura Cave [00:21:14]:

So from a direct to consumer standpoint, that unlocked a whole bunch of ways that I could look at how do we drive traffic here, how do we convert that traffic, and including the brand awareness along the way. But secondly, it's allowed us to have a lot of conversations all across the pharmacy value chain because we realized that if someone learns about this from their pharmacist, they they need to opt in, and it's gonna take at least twenty four hours, if not longer, to get officially opted into the program because the way the systems work. And, if there was a way for us to get someone opted in before they went to the pharmacy, perhaps at their doctor's office or maybe early on in the process with the pharmacy before they say, okay. Your prescription's ready. Come get it. They if they could receive those messages, educate themselves while a prior authorization is happening or some other process is happening. They're much more likely to show up to the pharmacy already opted in, and then they don't have to come back later. They can get their drug as early as it's available.

Laura Cave [00:22:21]:

And in many cases, that's very, very important for the health of the patient. And so we've begun exploring not just marketing campaigns, but other types of distribution for the tool, which sometimes is marketing with a partner, but sometimes it's just a collaboration. And in many instances, we've actually seen areas where this tool can embed inside other pharmacy workflows and be upsold, and we can reap some revenue off of it, which we never intended to do. Yes. But it's it's really meeting a need in the market, to have a simple and easy way to opt someone into the program no matter which plan they happen to have as their prescription drug coverage. So I just said a lot there, but, that's what we're in the middle of right now, and and we're really excited about it.

Sara Payne [00:23:10]:

Yeah. I mean, this is this is just incredible. So many smart strategic decisions, right, began with this. Okay. There's this problem, which is people don't know about this, and they're these forms are scattered all over in different places and people can't find them. Let's let's collate them. And and how many forms are we talking about, Laura? Like Like

Laura Cave [00:23:30]:

a thousand.

Sara Payne [00:23:31]:

A thousand forms into one right? So you're you're looking at this as there's, like, a a practical problem we need to solve here. But how many marketers have sat in this exact position, right, where it's like we have millions of people we need to reach from an awareness generating standpoint, but we we can't really measure beyond reach impressions, maybe some clicks. What happens there? We there's a cliff. Right? There's no there's no conversion. We can't figure out whether the work we're doing here in marketing is making an impact. So you built the conversion mechanism. Right? You're helping the consumer, but you're also helping better measure your marketing efforts, and then it unlocks these partnership opportunities that you never even were considering that is potentially leading to new revenue opportunities. Right? Like, if if there wasn't a better example for, you know, why to build an activation culture, right, and just dive in with with both feet all in, this is this is it.

Sara Payne [00:24:35]:

Right? Like, this is just such a smart example.

Laura Cave [00:24:38]:

Well, thank you. And I have to say, it sounds really tidy when I tell the story this way, but really, actually, it was it was a lot of work, and it was me as the marketer saying, we can't do that. There's no ROI. How do I know what my return on ad spend is? And then others were thinking about the problem with me. Others were thinking about the problem without me, and, and building the tool was not even my idea at all. And we have, product thinkers. We have a pharmacist on staff who knows everybody in the industry who's gotten us quickly into these, sort of corporate development conversations. And and it's it's wild because you're talking to legal, you're talking to product, you're talking to you're trying to understand what all the acronyms are in an industry that we, quite frankly, have not worked this deeply inside of the the pharmacy, operational stack.

Laura Cave [00:25:33]:

And now here we are slowly piecing all of these things together and understanding, oh, we could add value right there. And and those applications and those exploratory conversations have been really cool, but it would definitely would not have happened without, you know, the product work that was done by others on my team, not even my team on in our organization and, and the pharmacy expertise and know how from from my colleague, Jeff. So and then a bunch of a bunch of tinkering. You know, Kelsey or my colleague built the tool. And there were so many moments where she said, I ran into a dead end, but I just wrote some Python script and it fixed it. And who are you?

Sara Payne [00:26:18]:

Yeah. It

Laura Cave [00:26:19]:

is truly it's a culture. Like, it's not just me. It's like everybody around me is, is figuring it out and, being someone who is willing to hang in there. When you when you encounter these roadblocks and then and then find a solution somehow, some way through some research, ask Gemini or chat GBT, whatever you gotta do. You know? And when you keep at it, then you then you come out with something like this, and you're like, oh, obviously, this is what we should do.

Sara Payne [00:26:51]:

Yeah. Well, I mean, to your point, not not every company and culture is gonna have the same startup mentality that patient does. But I don't want people listening this to listening to this to think, I can't have this, or I I can't build this same activation mindset into my team or my organization because they can. You know? And that's the whole point of how I was having this conversation is to inspire others to lean in. And and what I heard and what you were just saying, which it starts by asking a bunch of questions. Right? It starts by asking a bunch of questions that lead you further down this pathway of exploration where you then start to connect dots together. Right? Linking arms with other smart people from cross functional different leadership areas across the organization to say, there's an idea here. Right? Let's get together.

Sara Payne [00:27:44]:

Let's grab a conference room. Let's map out what this could look like and being willing to go there. And I just I wonder if there's any advice you had in terms of, you know, for others, overcoming challenges or other sort of best practices that people might be able to leverage from your experiences with this?

Laura Cave [00:28:05]:

Yeah. I think it's just honestly a matter of focus. You can choose, you know, what you're what you're focused on. And if you're focused on doing marketing things versus having business impact and understanding the business problems that your business is facing and understanding what is the real job that needs to be done here. Sometimes it's not even a marketing job. Yeah. Or it's a marketing they think it's a marketing job, but really it'd be better solved with a product or a partnership, and and challenging yourself to think freely enough about that and pull in your product and corporate development partners because sometimes, you know, it is that exercise of should we buy, build, or rent this capability? You know? And if you're thinking like an owner and you're thinking about the business impact, and I think a lot of companies are using OKRs, objectives, and key results. They're Yeah.

Laura Cave [00:29:03]:

They're getting organized around executing, in ways that point to, like, that key result. How do I know if I've been successful? This key result will be true, and doing that that exercise and then relentlessly focusing on that. And then I think also just, like, knowing that with with having the confidence in yourself, knowing that a lot of times when things are hard, it's because nobody knows how to do these things.

Sara Payne [00:29:32]:

Right.

Laura Cave [00:29:34]:

And there isn't somebody out there. I think a lot of us can feel imposter syndrome when we run into these business challenges where you run into all these dead ends or you have to, like, invent your way out of a a sticky spot. You know? I used to think, like, gosh. There's probably somebody out there that knows it better than me, But I've learned over and over again, like, you are where you are because you are the one to figure it out. And, ironically, I would talk to peers who maybe share some of our investors, and I'd every once in a while have an opportunity. And by the way, I had to tell myself I'm I'm learning. And once I put myself in a growth mindset, and someone has an answer to something that I don't know, and I'm I think they'd be willing to tell me. Like, people are so kind and so generous.

Laura Cave [00:30:27]:

If you ask a question and they can offer their expertise, it makes them feel awesome. Don't rob them of that opportunity. Yes. You're too busy feeling insecure. Yes. I'm talking to my man.

Sara Payne [00:30:37]:

You know? And so

Laura Cave [00:30:41]:

I just put myself in growth mindset. And then I talked to these peers who just look like they have it all together. And then they're like, well, we're doing this and that and this and that. And I'm like, Oh, that's exactly what I'm doing. Okay. You know,

Sara Payne [00:30:53]:

we're having the same challenges and struggles that I am.

Laura Cave [00:30:56]:

Yeah. And then you realize you're not alone. And, that's worth its weight in gold. So yeah.

Sara Payne [00:31:04]:

That all of that was so great. I I'm gonna have to go back and replay that for myself because there's just so many great nuggets that I think apply to not just marketing leaders, but so many aspects of life, in terms of, you know, you are where you are for a reason. Yeah. Right? You've gotten yourself there, and being comfortable with the discomfort and being vulnerable and willing to ask others for advice and help. And just like you said, I've witnessed that too. People are so willing to offer it and so willing to help other people out that if you're just willing to ask, and and take it, you can learn so much to be able to apply to the situation that you're in.

Laura Cave [00:31:46]:

That's right. Well, I

Sara Payne [00:31:47]:

think that's a good place for us to, end the conversation. But before we can actually officially conclude, I've got some quick fire questions for you. Okay. Just give me your gut reaction on these. What is your go to move, Laura, when you need to unblock a stalled project?

Laura Cave [00:32:06]:

Ask for advice.

Sara Payne [00:32:08]:

Perfect. And what's a piece of leadership advice that you live by?

Laura Cave [00:32:16]:

Oh, that's a good question. Leadership advice. I mean, I always well, I'm a big believer that you have to be willing to be vulnerable yourself as a leader. And when you're vulnerable yourself about the things that the ways that you're growing, you give other people permission to grow with you.

Sara Payne [00:32:36]:

Yes. Love that so much. Give us a myth about marketing or innovation that you wish would just die.

Laura Cave [00:32:47]:

Oh, boy. I I don't believe that marketing can overcome product market fit problems, and I would love it if there were ways to identify when marketing was, putting lipstick on something that wasn't working and finding ways to to do that. I heard it said once that that marketing makes a misfit product fail faster, actually. And so fine. I think product market fit is probably the most important thing and and sharpening that value proposition so that it's clear that, you're solving a problem, and you're clear who that problem is for, you know, who that solution is for. That's that's the heart of it, and getting that right is really, really, really hard.

Sara Payne [00:33:35]:

Yeah. So Absolutely. What's one of your favorite books or podcasts that's shaped your thinking on growth and impact and activation?

Laura Cave [00:33:47]:

Yeah. So there's actually one I meant to mention earlier called Impact Players. It's by Liz Wiseman, and it is, all about how to orient yourself around noticing what is the job to be done, how to step up and lead, when to step back and let others lead. I found it to be, incredibly insightful and really resonant of the experience that I had had in growing organizations, and, I always recommend it to everybody on my team. There's one other if I can sneak one other in. It's called obviously awesome, and it's by April Dunford. And it's all about that value prop piece that I was just mentioning, how to actually position products. And she gives you a really big lay of the land in terms of what all your choices are, and I think it's just one of the most practical marketing books I've ever read.

Sara Payne [00:34:43]:

Well, I haven't read either one of those, so I'm gonna have to cue me filling my cart here and gonna be reading those probably over the weekend.

Laura Cave [00:34:51]:

Awesome.

Sara Payne [00:34:52]:

This has been such an inspiring conversation. So many great stories and examples. Before we wrap, let's let's leave our our listeners with one big takeaway. If someone is listening right now feeling frustrated by maybe slow decision making or bureaucracy inside of their organization or internal hurdles, What's one thing they could do tomorrow to start creating a more activation driven culture?

Laura Cave [00:35:19]:

The thing that comes to mind is embracing change. That change is hard, but change is also a gift because whatever is wrong today can be better tomorrow with change. And I think sometimes it's the changes you cause that are some of the best ones. So, think about what you can change, what you can do differently, and that is gonna get you unstuck. Or or even if it doesn't get you unstuck, it'll change where you're standing, and that will give you a different view. And then some things that are a mystery, you know, come into view, and suddenly, yeah, you have an idea of where to go next.

Sara Payne [00:35:58]:

That's so great. Well, thanks so much for being here, Laura. Where can listeners connect with you and also learn more about Patient?

Laura Cave [00:36:05]:

Yeah. So you can visit patient.com. That's paytient. You can visit us and follow us on LinkedIn, and you can also find me on LinkedIn as well. I'm just Laura Cave. Thanks so much.

Sara Payne [00:36:17]:

Thanks so much, Laura. And thanks to everyone for tuning in to the Health Marketing Collective, where strong leadership meets marketing excellence, because the future of healthcare depends on it. We'll see you next time.