How to Build a Strategic Marketing Team

Sara Payne [00:00:10]:

Welcome back to the Health Marketing Collective, where strong leadership meets marketing excellence. I'm your host, Sara Payne, and I'm bringing you fascinating conversations with some of the industry's top marketing minds. Today's episode is part 2 of our series on building a strategic marketing organization from the ground up. In part 1, we discussed how to recognize if your team is operating reactively rather than strategically. Today, we're taking it a step further, moving into actionable steps to build a scalable and measurable marketing team that can truly drive growth. Joining me again today is Yvonne Leonard, an expert at building and leading strategic marketing organizations With a track record of driving digital transformation, leading product launches, and building thought leadership programs, she's known for creating high performing teams that balance continuous improvement with collaboration and fun. Welcome back, Yvonne.

Yvonne Leonard [00:01:01]:

For having me, Sara.

Sara Payne [00:01:03]:

Yeah. We've got some work to do today, don't we, to give people some actionable advice that I know you've got a lot of experience and wisdom to share on this.

Yvonne Leonard [00:01:11]:

I sure do. Yeah. Let's dig in. I'm excited

Sara Payne [00:01:14]:

to dig in. So let's let's talk about when you've been called in to restructure a team. What are some of the most common core issues that you start with?

Yvonne Leonard [00:01:30]:

So one of the things I always look for is, right, do we are we operating with purpose? And what do I mean by that? Do we know what we're trying to do? And I I think last time we talked a little bit about bright shiny object, but this doesn't always even land with bright shiny objects. There's, you know, often a we need to we should do a seminar. We should we need to go to this trade show. We need a 1 pager. We, should, you know, host x y z. And the first question we need to ask is, what are we trying to accomplish? Right? What are we trying to accomplish? And then I go back to my ad agency roots, right, to say, if we're going to try to accomplish awareness, you know, how do we do that? How do you how do we build awareness? If it's perception, how are we gonna build perception? And do we think we have the awareness already, or do we not? Right? So I think business to business is an interesting area because our world is so media driven now from a social standpoint and grassroots efforts. But, right, like, I I don't have a superstar who is well, occasionally, we get lucky. But, you know, you took typically don't send, you know, a medical device to a superstar, and, you know, they carry it on their back to, you know, the next award season, and it becomes the thing.

Yvonne Leonard [00:03:14]:

Right? So we don't really have some of that. We don't have the influencers, but the world is working that way. Right? So how do we think about what can we accomplish? How do what do we have to accomplish? And what is the smartest way for us to do that, and the most effective way for us to do that? And can we measure it? So understanding what we're trying to do really is at the bare bones of it. And then getting stakeholder understanding or agreement with, yes, this is what we're gonna do. So let's stop talking about what it is, and let's start talking about what we need to get done. And then let the marketing team come back with a recommendation based on what you need to get done, how we will how we will approach that. And that's that's cornerstone stuff, but it's stuff that in the speed of the world and the demands of things, it's something that's often overlooked. It's a discipline that you actually have to put a you know, put a pin in it and say we're going to do this.

Yvonne Leonard [00:04:23]:

We have to have the discussion. So when when tactics are started without understanding ultimately what the objective is and how we're gonna how we're gonna measure it, what does success look like, that is a problem. So I would say one of the fastest and easiest things to start doing with a team is to say, tell me about this project that you have. What's the objective? Okay. How how are we how do we know it's gonna be successful? And and and if success is based on conjecture and it's based on conjecture of a group of individuals, you're never gonna know if it was successful. Like, that's that's gonna be a fundamental problem. So you may have to to determine, right, what success looks like for your team and then, right, socialize what that means to those other stakeholders to say this is what we're gonna do, and this is how we're going to know if it was successful. So I think those are things that you can start doing or looking at immediately.

Yvonne Leonard [00:05:24]:

Like, do you have an objective? Can you measure it? And I think that that's fundamental. And then when you have that objective, you know, how are we going to approach that? Because not every tactic works for every objective. Or sometimes you could say, yeah. There's a stretch there, but it may be not the most efficient way potentially for somebody to, do something. So for example, building awareness. When people say they're going to go to a trade show to build awareness, I would say I think a trade show is probably more appropriate to build thought leadership, build perception, you know, create demand for a new product potentially. Building awareness, it's probably not the best. It's just not the most efficient.

Yvonne Leonard [00:06:25]:

And for the host, the cost of doing awareness that way is not efficient compared to other mediums, ala digital marketing. And so understanding that and that's not to say you shouldn't do them. But, like, let's call a spade a spade, and let's make sure we understand that, yes, we can build a little awareness potentially limited at a trade show. We We can do x, y, and z at the trade show, but you know what? The trade show is probably gonna be more successful if you've already done some awareness building with that audience and then have a reason for them to seek you seek further. Right? Either thought leadership or this product. But that's that's a challenge. And so, you know, understanding that, you know, we you know, if you if you're gonna develop leads, what does that mean? If somebody comes to a webinar, is that a qualified lead? I mean, you, probably not. You know? I go to the boat show in Minnesota with my husband.

Yvonne Leonard [00:07:32]:

Right. But sometimes in February, there's nothing else to do. So I'm not in the mood for a new boat, but you know what? It's a cheap, you know, cheap Friday night date.

Sara Payne [00:07:42]:

Right. Right.

Yvonne Leonard [00:07:43]:

I'm not a lead for that boat dealer. You know? And and I'm and I'm not going to purchase a boat on a whim. So it's it's the same kind of thing. Although, you know, if if lead generation is the desire, you I'm not gonna argue that you're not gonna potentially put people in it to the top of a marketing funnel by having them go to a webinar, but that doesn't necessarily mean they're qualified. And so so really starting to have some of these discussions, and with your sales organization or your inside sales organization and your marketing organization and understanding, right, understanding what you need to do and where those handoffs are. Do you have processes in place? Do you not have processes in place? Do you have the infrastructure to do what you're trying to do? Those are things that, you know, really need to be thought through. And so, and those are discussions you have to have. And the question alt ultimately has to be, like, why? And and if if if you have lead gen as part of your marketing program, like, do you know what a what a qualified leads looks like in your organization? And then what's what does that look like right on the back end? How many of your qualified leads are actually converting? And does that make sense? Or should you be working with the sales organization and really kind of trying to understand, is there a better place for qualification to happen? Maybe it's earlier.

Yvonne Leonard [00:09:19]:

Maybe it maybe it we need to do some more of that. Like, is that an open conversation that is being had within the organization so that you know how to to drive things forward? So it's those kinds of things. Like, understanding the reason and what you're trying to accomplish with each thing. Each each marketing tactic should have a purpose. And if you don't know what that purpose is, I would question the tactic. Yeah. And if you're and if you have goals that aren't being reached, I would look at the tactics that are driving those goals and the activities that are driving to those goals and say, okay. Are these the right tactics, or what can we do to improve these things? Or do we need to do something else? Like, have we tried this and it like, you've given it the college shot, and it's not working.

Yvonne Leonard [00:10:16]:

Okay. Right. How do we reengineer? So I think it's it's needing you need to have that flexibility to kind of really take a hard look at stuff and say, okay. Is this working? And is it working based on an agreed upon understanding of this is what it was supposed to do? Yeah. Are we doing it because we feel good about it ourselves and we love to do it, or we actually doing it because it's moving the needle? Yeah. 100%. Discussions. Yeah.

Sara Payne [00:10:46]:

Yeah. So to to to recap some of the the the core areas to solve, talked about roles and expectations within the marketing organization. You talked about clear objectives and outputs, which is which is part of the infrastructure and the process discussion. And there's, I'm sure, a lot that sort of falls under this process and infrastructure bucket. And and and one of those things is understanding the customer as well. So what are some of the the ways, Yvonne, that that you've found success in uncovering what customers are are really looking for, what matters to them, and, you know, being able to make some strategic marketing decisions that's centered around that.

Yvonne Leonard [00:11:35]:

So I think you can do things both qualitatively and quantitatively. So from a qualitative standpoint, I think talk to your sales organization to get their perspective. Talk to customers directly. And I would say any marketer should be talking to customers on a regular basis.

Sara Payne [00:11:54]:

Mhmm.

Yvonne Leonard [00:11:54]:

And you should start the conversation with, I'm in marketing, so I'm not gonna try to sell you anything.

Sara Payne [00:12:01]:

Yeah.

Yvonne Leonard [00:12:02]:

What I need to understand is, you know, what do you think about x y z? And maybe it's your category. Maybe it's not just your company. Right? Sometimes it's important to ask a lot of questions, and not always self centered questions, but market questions. What do you think the biggest unsolved need in the market is? What do you think your biggest challenge is gonna be in the next 5 years? You know? Your your product or service may not address that, but knowing that and knowing that that is mindshare that is going to be used up by your customer, is an important thing to know. Right? So you can do those kinds of things. You can do a little bit of a retrospective. Right? If you do have content on your website, did you have good measurement on your website? Where are people clicking? Where are they lingering? Are you looking at page views? Are you looking at specific page views? Are you looking at blogs? Are there blogs that people you know, are all of your blogs approximately the same length? And if they are, you know, within a 1000 words, like, why you know, are people staying on certain blogs longer? What are those? Are there any patterns there? Are there patterns between that and Google? Right? You know? So looking at some of those things, right, which Google Analytics can help you with and really looking at your website and some of that. And then I think I'm a big one for if you have a budget, doing both qualitative and quantitative, research with customers to find out what they want definitively.

Yvonne Leonard [00:13:41]:

Right? And, if you can afford to use a 3rd party, I think it adds credibility. If you can do it blinded, sometimes you get some very brutal truths Yeah. That your organization probably needs to hear. Agreed. But and then I think building a open, honest relationship with some of your customers that, right, are like your good I will like, a good girlfriend would be to me when they say, like, that's not for you.

Sara Payne [00:14:11]:

It's not working for you, Yvonne.

Yvonne Leonard [00:14:13]:

Yeah. No. No. No. And you need that. You need that from customers, but most customers are not gonna tell you that. Most customers are gonna be my husband. Right? Oh, that looks lovely.

Yvonne Leonard [00:14:21]:

They're not gonna tell me this the truth that, like, those jeans have got to go. Right? So it's the same it's the same kind of thing. Right? And and and looking at it and and as a marketer, our job is to be stewards to our customer within our organization, which means with with product development, providing the insight to continue to develop products that our customers want. If it's services, if it's content that we're working on, we need to think about our customers and provide them what what they're looking for. Right? It's it's I'm a big analogy person, but, like, I I don't want you, my husband, to give me a vacuum cleaner for Christmas. Like, you might need a new vacuum cleaner, or, you know, I might like to even vacuum, but, like, don't give me one for Christmas. Like, we need to think about our customers. We are giving them gifts.

Yvonne Leonard [00:15:17]:

Content is gift. New products and services are gift. We need to think about what they want. Right? You all everybody knows and feels when you get a really thoughtful gift where people actually think about it, serve it up to you, and they know you know that they thought about you. They know things about you, and they tried to match this thing with who you are and what you want. It makes you feel really good. You also have gotten a gift where you know somebody either ran into their gift closet and recycled something very quickly or didn't think about it at all. And it it doesn't always feel as good.

Yvonne Leonard [00:15:52]:

And and, like, I'm not a perfect gift giver, so it's just an analogy. But we are giving something to our customers as marketers to try to entice them to spend more time with us. And so we need to meet them where they need us to go rather than sometimes where we or what our companies would want to tell them. Right?

Sara Payne [00:16:14]:

Yeah. Absolutely.

Yvonne Leonard [00:16:15]:

I do it. I say it like that. Sometimes I I talk about it like bad date marketing. Right? Like, you go on a date and somebody only talks about themselves, and then they ask you on the 2nd date, and you're like, oh, no. It's it's the same kind of thing if you really think about it. And I think, really, putting yourself as a human being into the work you do. And I think, right, when you're doing marketing, it's one to many, and you're often thinking about, you know, the market. But as you develop content or you develop programs or you develop products, you're developing them for a human being.

Yvonne Leonard [00:16:50]:

And think treat. Right? Treat your customers the way you would like to be treated. You know how great it feels when you go into a restaurant and you have, like, a really great service experience. And, like, that that's what that's what our job is. Our job is to understand what our customers want and and serve it up. And sometimes it is, right, this balance between what our our company wants us to do or wants us to tell them. And I think marketing's job is to work with really talented people like you to help develop a story that can tie both things in but serves that customer desire that puts something to a box with the bow that delights your customer at the end of the day. Like, that is what your junk is.

Sara Payne [00:17:40]:

Yes. Absolutely. Love all of those analogies. So many great points there. Let's let's talk about let's shift a little bit, talk about scalability and measurability. So once you get all of these core basics in place, how do you start building a system then using that term somewhat loosely here that's scalable and measurable?

Yvonne Leonard [00:18:06]:

So I think developing the objective helps with at least the start of measurable. Right?

Sara Payne [00:18:13]:

Yep.

Yvonne Leonard [00:18:13]:

Yep. And so that that if you don't have an objective, you don't have measurement. And and I know people will say, well, I have Google Analytics, and that's fine. But what what are you trying to, like, what are you trying to change? Right? What are you trying to improve? And so I think the fundamental question is, where do you think you can improve? Or the other way to look at it is, where do we think we kinda suck? And maybe that's your personal experience just with benchmarking in terms of click through rates you've had at other companies or time on-site or number of page views. So pick your pick your poison. Think think about where you think you have opportunity and start knocking away at that. Right? And then yell from the rooftops that you are making improvements here and to start showing those improvements. Love that.

Yvonne Leonard [00:19:06]:

What those improvements could potentially do later on. Right? And as you knock through 1, you can start adding another. Right? So maybe it is we want people to stay on our site longer because they're only staying on our site for a very short amount of time. We want them to get on the site longer. Okay. Now we want them to stay on the site, and we want them instead of to only be on one page, we want them to be engaged. So we want to to make sure that they're scrolling on that page or they're going to a second page. So what can we do? Okay.

Yvonne Leonard [00:19:39]:

We might have to look at our web design and our layout. Like, is it easy to navigate? Does it have things that we can adjust? And then to make it scalable, you actually need to understand cause and effect. Right? So

Sara Payne [00:19:54]:

Yes.

Yvonne Leonard [00:19:55]:

Start thinking about, okay. So we have a lot of people come to our website, and we have a lot of people on our pages, but we don't have a lot of people clicking, you know, our calls to action. Okay. So what can you do? Well, you can try different calls to action. You can try different placements of calls to action. So if you change the placement and the words at the same time, you don't know which one worked. Right. And it's both.

Yvonne Leonard [00:20:22]:

Right? So you need to make sure that you manage variables. And this is something I harp a lot with my teams because it's always fun. Right? And and if you can, like, build a team that looks forward to continuous improvement, like, what could we do different next time? How can we do this better? It's great. And you can build off of it, and it can get really exciting. But you can also get yourself into a situation where, like, let's reengineer it this way.

Sara Payne [00:20:52]:

And Changing all the things. Yep.

Yvonne Leonard [00:20:54]:

You need it all, and then you you can't you don't know what's what worked or what didn't work. And so, you don't need, right, you don't need, like, this gargantuan sample sizes. You know, run a quick AB test. The beauty of digital is it's fast and easy to change. So right? Yeah. Yep. And an AB test. Run it for 2 weeks depending on what your web traffic is or what your, how frequently you're posting on LinkedIn and how many people are following.

Yvonne Leonard [00:21:27]:

Like, do an AB test. Do it for a week. Do it for 10 days. Is your click through rate or your your success so much higher here? Great. Okay. That seemed better than the last one. So let's keep that variable. We know where where it used to be.

Yvonne Leonard [00:21:44]:

Keep that variable. Now change the next thing. So you can do it in relatively rapid succession. It's not like it has to be some, you know

Sara Payne [00:21:53]:

Right. Longer on out.

Yvonne Leonard [00:21:54]:

We hit. Right? 25100 people do it. Right? Like, it's quick. And that that's the beauty, I think, of the digital age. Try it.

Sara Payne [00:22:02]:

Yep.

Yvonne Leonard [00:22:02]:

If it doesn't work, go back. Okay. Then what's your other option? Change the color? Okay. Change the color. Does does it matter if if the call to action is red or green? Okay. Change the color. See what happens. So but constantly kind of asking those questions.

Yvonne Leonard [00:22:17]:

Could we make it better if we try this? Could we make it better if we try that? So you know, and if it's better, great. Okay. Let's try the next thing. What else can we do to try to improve? But really and really kind of shout from the rooftop where where you're having success.

Sara Payne [00:22:35]:

Yeah. I love that. Right? I love that shouting from the rooftop. I mean, you're you're layering on you're layering on top of one one success metric after another. Right? These these changes you're making, you're layering layering them on top of one another and showing the organization the change that's being made. Because, ultimately, what are we looking to do? We're looking to make the case to increase the marketing budget and the investment. Because chances are, if it wasn't a strategic marketing function to begin with, the resources weren't fully where they needed to be in order to really support growth of the organization and take it to the next level, which again, I think we talked about in part 1. Right? Reverse engineering the understanding of here's what we need in place in order to hit the right target.

Sara Payne [00:23:24]:

So let's talk about that. Let's talk about budgeting and resourcing because it can make or break a marketing strategy. And what's your approach, in terms of of building this case and making the right partnerships with the finance department as well?

Yvonne Leonard [00:23:41]:

So I'm glad you brought that up. You know, I always tell my team, finance is our friend. And I have always, worked very hard to have a very open and very transparent, relationship with finance. And one of the things where you you know, if you're shouting from the rooftops and you're able to show the organization where you're making changes, right, and where you're starting to make an impact, it's, number 1, easier for everybody to kind of solidify around that. Right? So if you have all these different people who have different ideas of what marketing can it should be doing or could be doing, you suddenly are showing them this moving object that's helping them. Right? So that's one of the things, but it also helps when you start showing that to finance to say, okay. This is why I'm going to do this. You know, we're going to do this because of this.

Yvonne Leonard [00:24:34]:

We and and talk about your objectives. And as as somebody coming in to say, here's where I see problems, to to talk to finance a little bit about, here's where I think the organization was wasting money because we were putting all of this money into these things, and they were never measured. We're a 100% conjecture based in terms of was this successful or not. So, you know, I can make this at least measured, and then we can make better financial decisions. And then once you start showing success that, like, you can get people eyeballs to clicks, to fill out a, you know, form

Sara Payne [00:25:14]:

To convert. Yeah.

Yvonne Leonard [00:25:16]:

And they convert. And and this is the revenue, that's been generated, it makes it a lot easier. Once you once you can start showing that, then you typically have some pretty strong true believers in the finance organization. And I have found that finance can often help stick up for marketing, and really support and be a really strategic partner for marketing as time goes on. But they need to understand what you're fundamentally trying to do and how you're doing it. And, to me, that is, a no brainer. Like

Sara Payne [00:25:54]:

Yeah. I mean, that's that's a that's a a big one right there, folks. You can get you can get financed to stick up for marketing. It can be done. You heard it here first. Make them your champion. Make them your friends.

Yvonne Leonard [00:26:10]:

Let's, let's talk a little

Sara Payne [00:26:12]:

bit about I like to ask this question a lot, of folks that that come on the show is how do you decide what to outsource and what to keep in house?

Yvonne Leonard [00:26:22]:

That's a good question. It depends on the organization. But I would say, like, if you are an organization that has process challenges and discipline challenges, right, you are very used to decision by committee or deciding that this is the tactic you're gonna do, and there's no objective for it. And and that's kind of how things are run. I have found that outsourcing is one of the greatest ways to force an organization to actually think through everything. First of all, if you're outsourcing, obviously, your outsourced partners are experts at. Right? Very few marketers are experts at all the creative creative and public relations and copywriting and strategy and and and and and. Right? So so using people who are really, really smart and really, really smart is typically really, really efficient.

Yvonne Leonard [00:27:28]:

That's important. But what's even more important is it makes your team focus on what they're trying to accomplish with that partner. Because if you are undisciplined working with a partner, the bill is gonna show it.

Sara Payne [00:27:45]:

Yes. It is. You are right about that.

Yvonne Leonard [00:27:47]:

Real quick. And then you're gonna be explaining to finance why nothing happened with this spend. And so I typically have shied away from kind of internal creative departments and those kinds of things unless you're in an organization that is really, really well processed and really has a lot of things going. And maybe you're working on the finesse or potentially bringing new infrastructure in to improve a marketing department. But I typically shy away from that because what happens is if there is no objective set and it's like, oh, let's do a brochure on x y z, or let's create a post on x y z, and somebody can help make it cooler and prettier. And the next thing you know, you're potentially multiple steps away, or more people are potentially influencing you if you're in an organization that's kind of a lot of committee Yep. In terms of approvals. Like, suddenly, you have the ability to be like, oh, we didn't wanna say it that way.

Yvonne Leonard [00:29:03]:

Let's do this. And the next thing you know, you are no longer true north. You are now the whim of everyone around you. And so for me, outsource partners help bring discipline. They're smarter than I am. Right? They're smarter and more efficient than I am in the craft that they're in. And, that's that's where it makes a lot of sense for me. And you need to think about those disciplines, those disciplines in terms of what you're trying to do.

Yvonne Leonard [00:29:33]:

You know? Yeah. What are you what are your goals? And look at

Sara Payne [00:29:38]:

I think that's really great advice. I totally agree with all of that. Let's let's talk about, you know, the the leadership part of this. Right? Leading with courage through all of this change. It it it's hard. It's not easy. It's not easy work, probably not for the faint of heart. Where so this is a 2 parter.

Sara Payne [00:30:02]:

First part is where do you find the courage to keep pushing for change when when things get hard, when there's resistance? And then the second part of it, though, is how do you keep your team motivated through all of these changes? So first part, self, second part, team.

Yvonne Leonard [00:30:21]:

First part, self. It might be a little nutty, but I do play games in my head sometimes where this is how I'm gonna win on this one. And I have little steps that if I do this so part of it is just my weird inner mechanism that is very competitive and has turned most of my life into some sort of competition. And so, that that motivates me by myself.

Sara Payne [00:30:49]:

Celebrating celebrating the small steps, really. Right? Like, taking those

Yvonne Leonard [00:30:53]:

small steps and and sometimes just knowing. Right? Sometimes all it takes in an organization is, like, can you you you fight the headwinds? You just need that first domino. If that first domino falls, like, everything is going. You know? So sometimes it's like, do I know what my first domino is gonna be? Is it insight? And, like, do I have somebody else? My boss, does he understand what this first or she, do they understand what this first domino is? Or does my finance business partner understand what this first domino is? So when I get frustrated or I'm like, do you have somebody who understands how close you're getting in in the progress that you what that you're trying

Sara Payne [00:31:38]:

to make?

Yvonne Leonard [00:31:39]:

So I think it's that. And then, again, it's a little bit of nutty inside stuff, but, everybody has their quirks.

Sara Payne [00:31:45]:

Do we do?

Yvonne Leonard [00:31:45]:

For my, Yeah. For my team, I think there's a balance. Right? We have to show them. And so I think shouting from the rooftop is one of the best things you can do for your team. I think being in the trenches with them, I am not a leader of people that, sits in my high castle and shares edicts. Like, get in there. If I have a fail if I have a failure with the way I've approached something or tried to sell something up, like, it's okay for me to share that with my team. I actually think, that camaraderie and being willing to say, look, I make mistakes too.

Yvonne Leonard [00:32:28]:

This is how we all learn. I'm gonna go back in, and I'm gonna try it this way. Or, you know, do any of you wanna weigh in on a a different tact we might be able to take? Because we've we've now hit, right, a roadblock that we didn't anticipate hitting. I think being as transparent as possible, obviously, there are things as leaders we know that it's inappropriate to share, but I am a believer that if it is shareable information, the more transparent I can be with my team, the more real I can be with my team. The stronger the team is, the the tighter knit the group is, the more collaborative the team is, then I think it's it starts with us. Right? I think it starts with us. And I think we we need to think about also, reiterating to our team and then also to our leadership where where what we're trying to do actually works with the vision of the company. This is what the company's vision is.

Yvonne Leonard [00:33:29]:

This is what I'm trying to do from a marketing perspective to help make that a reality. And, you know, thinking about some of those those things that are values within the organization, that the organization has stated in their mission statement or in their HR documents, you know, that these are these are the values that we hold dear. Where where can you tie the work that you're doing to those things? And sometimes demonstrate those, especially when you're hitting roadblocks or especially when you aren't sure you're being heard or you're frustrated. I think sometimes going back to some of those things to say, like, I understand that you may not understand what we're trying to accomplish or you disagree with where I'm coming from, but, like, this is a value that this company has, and this is what I'm trying to do to achieve that for my team. And I think sometimes tying stuff to a value, especially when you're talking to upper leadership, is really, impactful when you, feel like maybe you're charging down the street alone and wondering, like, is anybody there?

Sara Payne [00:34:42]:

Like Yeah. Turning around and wondering if anyone's following you.

Yvonne Leonard [00:34:45]:

Yeah. And so, yeah.

Sara Payne [00:34:47]:

So that's that's all such great advice. Shouting from the rooftop to celebrate the successes. Transparency, so critical. Being willing to admit mistakes and tying things back to core values. Keeping people focused on that true north for the organization and and how marketing helps contribute to that. So much, great advice and and so much great inspiration for those of you out there who are looking to start building or refining a strategic marketing organization that supports growth. And, Yvonne, how can listeners get in touch with you if they'd like to dig deeper on any of this?

Yvonne Leonard [00:35:26]:

Reach out to me, on LinkedIn, Yvonne KF Leonard. I'd be happy to, chat or give my advice. If I could give you any insight, I'd be happy to

Sara Payne [00:35:37]:

Amazing. Amazing. Well, thanks so much for doing this with me, Yvonne.

Yvonne Leonard [00:35:40]:

Oh, thank you, Sara. It was my pleasure.

Sara Payne [00:35:43]:

And for all of you out there, thanks for tuning in. If you enjoyed the conversation, do us a favor and subscribe wherever you get your podcasts. Thanks for being part of the health marketing collective. We're strong leadership meets marketing excellence because the future of healthcare depends on it. We'll see you next time.