Bold Executive Voices: The Key to Effective Thought Leadership

Sara Payne [00:00:10]:

Hello, and welcome back to the Health Marketing Collective, where strong leadership meets marketing excellence. I'm your host, Sara Payne. Today, I'm here with my good friend and former guest of the show, Jennifer Hovelsrud. Welcome back, Jen.

Jen Hovelsrud [00:00:23]:

Glad to be here, Sara.

Sara Payne [00:00:24]:

Yeah. Thanks for doing this with me today. I asked Jen to join me for a joint host chat, if you will. And the topic that we're gonna dig into is the power of executive thought leadership on social media. This is going to be the 2nd episode in a 3 part series leading up to the health conference in Las Vegas in October, just a few short week weeks away. And the theme for this year's conference, they always have a theme, the theme is be bold. So we're doing 3 episodes inspired by this theme of be bold. I think it's a great theme for the conference.

Sara Payne [00:01:00]:

Jen, from my perspective, it it feels like it's really calling on the industry leaders to really lean in, to step up in driving meaningful change. What do you think of this theme?

Jen Hovelsrud [00:01:11]:

I agree, and I think it's really well timed. Not that there's maybe ever a bad time to be bold, but we know in health, it's it's time for some bold and innovative action. And it's, to me, that also means being boldly authentic. What do you stand for, and what are you gonna do? So I love it.

Sara Payne [00:01:30]:

I love that, and it's an election year. Right? There's a lot of sort of change on the horizon. You know, regardless of of what happens in the outcome of the election, health care is gonna need to be a a priority for the next administration. And I agree. I think being bold means standing for something that matters.

Jen Hovelsrud [00:01:48]:

Yeah.

Sara Payne [00:01:49]:

Standing up for driving true and meaningful change, in in health outcomes. So with this framework of being bold, I wanted to talk about something that is so critically important for any brand to do if they want to be considered true thought leaders in the industry, and that is executive thought leadership on social media. I personally believe that this is an underleveraged thought leadership strategy, and it's very underappreciated in terms of how critically important it is. I think there's a lot of executives that are still not active on social media and some who are active but not doing it maybe in the right way or really maximizing that channel from a thought leadership perspective. You know, I I just think that if they're not contributing to and advancing critical issues within the industry on social media, it's a huge miss. What are your thoughts on on that, Jen?

Jen Hovelsrud [00:02:46]:

I couldn't agree more, Sara, and I'll I'll be bold on this topic too, and I'd love to know what you think about it. I think 25 to 30% of any leader's time should be, dedicated to communication, internal and external, and where social media and putting yourself out there as an expert maybe was an option 10 years ago, I I don't think it's an option anymore. I think as a leader, it's something that you have to to to be doing because the at the end of the day, people trust people more than they trust brands, and and they can help gain that brand trust. So I think it's critically important that they do it and that they learn to do it well and that we support them.

Sara Payne [00:03:29]:

Yeah. Well said. And I love that you put actually put a, specific percentage around that in terms of their time. I never really thought about it in that way, and I think it really helps communicate how important this really is, to them and to the organization. And you're absolutely right. I don't think it's an option anymore. You know, I I think that it's it not only elevates your brand's overall thought leadership presence, But to your point, it's all about trust building. Right? Humanizes your brand, increases trust.

Sara Payne [00:04:04]:

People wanna do business with people. Yeah. And and if they're only hearing from the brand on social media and not from the leaders behind that brand, people understand that there's the communications department. There's a marketing department that are behind the brand. They want to also see that those wonderful messages that are being put out there are authentically mirrored in in a unique way by executive leadership.

Jen Hovelsrud [00:04:32]:

I I couldn't agree more, and it's that other really important layer that obviously has to be consistent to work. I don't think you can do it with just a brand voice, and I don't think you can do it with just an executive voice. They're, you know, they're legs of the stool, and you need them all, and they do different things.

Sara Payne [00:04:51]:

Absolutely. And one of the things that that they do differently so a lot of you hear from a lot of our clients and and a lot of the CEOs is they want they wanna get more podiums at conferences, conferences like health. Right? And you cannot get a big podium without being an active thought leader on social, period.

Jen Hovelsrud [00:05:12]:

Period. I mean, you you tell me. You do a lot more of that than I do. When you pitch someone for a big stage, you know, assuming you're not getting the request from them, what's the first thing they go to do, to to see if they want you on the stage?

Sara Payne [00:05:29]:

Social media. Yep. They're gonna go Right? Yep. They're gonna go they're gonna go check you out on social to see, you know, it's basically your CV. It's your resume to prove you're worthy of that stage. And they wanna see that what was submitted in the speaking nomination or the the proposal comes to life on social media. That this isn't just something that, you know, the brand woke up one day and decided was going to, you know, be a thought leader around because it's all of a sudden the, you know, the cool thing to do in the industry. But there's actually proof and evidence over time of not only the brands, but the executives' authenticity to the commitment around that particular topic, whatever it is.

Jen Hovelsrud [00:06:12]:

Absolutely. And I'm sure what they're looking for is, we know this will be valuable to your brand, but is your executive and thought leader gonna have something unique, and bold to offer our audience? Because that's what they're promising. So

Sara Payne [00:06:27]:

100%. Right? Say something different than what everyone else is saying on the topic. Right? There's there's a lot of noise, out there on different topics inside of health care. AI is one of them. So many other examples. How is your brand and your executive bringing something unique and different to that conversation to truly advance it? Yeah. And I I guess we should talk about channels too. When we say social media, which channels are really best for for leaders to leverage? And and, you know, I don't wanna spend a ton of time on this, but I personally feel that LinkedIn is the most effective platform for executive thought leadership.

Sara Payne [00:07:04]:

So when I say executive thought leadership on social, like, I'm primarily thinking about LinkedIn just given the overall sort of professional focus of of the platform. Would you agree with that?

Jen Hovelsrud [00:07:13]:

I 100% agree, and I I I think that does have to do with exactly what you said too, being authentic to the channel. And so if you're on TikTok, that that isn't the place that you're gonna talk about serious thought leadership ideas. You're gonna have to have a different approach there. And not very very few people are probably going to be able to pull that off and pull it off with the resources they have. So I do a 100% agree with you that LinkedIn is the default platform to do thought leadership for executives.

Sara Payne [00:07:45]:

Yeah. And I and I think their algorithm is built for that. Right? Their algorithm rewards educational, thoughtful content, and the platform itself is is well suited for longer form posts, more in-depth content that you're not gonna be able to get from from TikTok and and some of the other platforms. So I just wanted to find that sort of anchor for the conversation. I'm really primarily today talking about LinkedIn. Doesn't mean that brands couldn't have, say, an Instagram strategy or or other insert other platform here. But, yeah, I'm really speaking about this from a from a LinkedIn perspective today.

Jen Hovelsrud [00:08:20]:

Yeah. And I think LinkedIn is the one, to your point, that's building products around those things that you know, should you happen to have a paid budget that you can put behind this, they're building products for that. And I think the other platforms, generally speaking, are probably, better suited for influencers, more so than thought leadership. And sometimes those blend together. Often, they don't.

Sara Payne [00:08:44]:

Yeah. I would agree with that as well. So we've talked about why we need to be doing this, but I think one of the major hurdles for most brands, most companies is going to be how do you convince your CEO, your executives that it's worth devoting their time to social media. I mean, you already threw out a percentage. What did you say? 25, 30 percent of their overall time should be spent on communications, and that includes the internal stuff. But social, their presence on social has to be baked into that. Yeah. So, you know, we know they're extremely busy.

Sara Payne [00:09:16]:

How do we make this feasible for them? And here's what I hear all the time. I hear, I don't have time. I hear, I'm too old for this. I've heard that before. I've heard I'm a really private person. I've heard people don't really wanna hear what I have to say. And I and I understand that that many of those things are real barriers. But I do see many of them as psychological barriers that are being put up as excuses.

Sara Payne [00:09:50]:

And and I think, you know, the comms team, the marketing team has to sort of work with them in a conversation, to change their discomfort around this. Right? Build up their confidence and and help them embrace that.

Jen Hovelsrud [00:10:07]:

Yeah. So can I ask you because, you know, you and I have, come from different sides of this in terms of you're trying to get convince clients? I'm trying to convince my internal partners. What has been successful for you, with clients in, I guess, in 2 areas? Then, 1, getting them open to even trying it, breaking down those barriers, and then, maybe what's been most important about equipping them or or getting them comfortable once you've convinced them that it's worth it.

Sara Payne [00:10:39]:

Yeah. Yep. So it is a 2 parter. I would say on the the first part of that, you know, just just getting them to be open to taking that next step forward and and, you know, trying it.

Jen Hovelsrud [00:10:50]:

Yeah.

Sara Payne [00:10:51]:

Is, you know, I think it's it's an honest conversation that if what you want is to be known as a true leader and you wanna have the press calling you as a top source for their articles and you wanna get podiums on the stage, you're gonna have to get over the discomfort. Like, you're gonna have to dive in with 2 feet and make this a priority. And we, as a, you know, communications team, marketing team, are gonna help with that. Right? We're gonna help source maybe some timely subjects that, you know, they can post around and put into their own voice. But they have to trust the process. They have to say, yes. I agree. This is a priority.

Sara Payne [00:11:32]:

This is important. We're gonna do this and just jump all in. Because if they if they kinda hang on with that, hesitancy, I just I see that it keeps going back to that, and it's just gonna continue to be deprioritized. And you kind of just have to have that conversation of trust with them and just kinda get them to go, this is important. Do you agree? Can we do this together?

Jen Hovelsrud [00:11:54]:

Yep. And I think you can, feel that hesitancy in their online presence if you've gotten them out there but not fully committed. And that may come through in volume, but it may come through in tone and what, I'll go back to your theme, bold, what they're boldly willing to step into. And there's certainly a fine line there. But

Sara Payne [00:12:16]:

Yeah. So then the second part. Right? So now you've got their commitment. Yes. Okay. We're gonna do this. And then they're like, well, how do I do it? Right? They they need some level of and it depends where they're at. Some people might need more training and coaching on this than others.

Sara Payne [00:12:28]:

Maybe some actually need their profile to be more updated and and robust than what it is today, to support that being a strong thought leadership channel for the company and for the brand. So some of that sort of tactical stuff is going to need to be worked out. But I would say a next great step with them is to help them, you know, do a do a whiteboard session with them, help them document their core beliefs, in in topical pillars that that they're passionate about, and do that at sort of the highest strategic level of what that list is, and then help them turn that into a content strategy for LinkedIn. Right? And maybe content strategies, like, they're like, I don't, like, what is that? What is that phrasing? It's not their world. But turn it into a something that feels manageable, like a posting calendar. Like, you're gonna do this 4 times a week, and 2 of your posts are gonna be about this topic. One's gonna be about a company thing, and this other one's gonna be about this over here. Like, take their core beliefs and what they're passionate about and turn it into this is how it fits inside of your week.

Jen Hovelsrud [00:13:45]:

I agree. And I I I think, to me, what is most important to raise up out of what you said too is, you're working with them to know their lane. Like, this is what you're gonna talk about, and I think that also helps them transcend brand, which makes them especially powerful online because they're talking about their core beliefs. They're talking about the issue or the thing that they're passionate about. They just happen to be doing that at work for, you know, said employer, which also helps that brand. But it helps them to come across really authentically and, more boldly when when they're out using their expertise.

Sara Payne [00:14:27]:

Yeah. So step 1, getting the commitment. Step 2 is doing kind of this whiteboarding session to get their, you know, core beliefs, their their POV captured, then translate that into something that can be, you know, seen inside of their week, and they can kind of bucket these things in their brain. And then on an ongoing basis, I think you need to create some sort of a a feedback loop with them. You know, maybe in the beginning, it's like you you get on the phone with them once a week or once every other week to say, hey. You're doing great, you know, on this particular topic. You know, you could have even gotten deeper on that. Right? Like, there's a whole story behind that.

Sara Payne [00:15:04]:

You posted one sentence. Gosh. I would have loved 3 paragraphs on that. Or, you know, you're you're doing great with the post, but I wanna see more engaging with the con the comment section with people. And then and then they can take that stuff. They're like, yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Sara Payne [00:15:19]:

Because they love feedback. They really do. And I think honestly, I don't think CEOs get as much feedback as they actually want to get. Think they're very eager and hungry for that, and I think they will take notes on that stuff and and and go implement it.

Jen Hovelsrud [00:15:32]:

And and most of them know this isn't their core area. They're so they they need and want it.

Sara Payne [00:15:38]:

Absolutely. Yeah. And I think there's just a lot of there's a lot of trust to be built between comms and and executive leadership around this and and and helping them be successful, helping them become the thought leader they know they are. Yep. Right? Like, many of these people have such amazing point of view and so much, expertise to offer the industry, but it's it's it's hidden inside of, you know, the channels with whom the people that with whom they're meeting with. Right? And it's our job to help the world see that. You know, a lot of these companies exist because of these innovative leaders that are thinking differently about the industry, and just think about the power if we can unleash that.

Jen Hovelsrud [00:16:23]:

Yeah. And and going back to something you said, Sara, they you know, for those that say, I don't really have anything to offer, in my experience, most of the people who have gotten to that point in their career have a lot to offer just based on experience, the altitude with which they see their business in the world, and, the success they've had in their area of expertise. And I think that's wildly interesting to most people out there who are trying to solve the same problems that they're solving or build their career in a similar way.

Sara Payne [00:16:58]:

And, again, I think that comes from, you know, having a moment of of low confidence. Right? We're all human. And and I think even leaders feel that sometimes. It's it's the, I do think CEOs can have impostor syndrome, particularly when it comes to something like this. Like, is this really my lane? Do people really wanna hear from me? And the answer is yes and yes. Yeah.

Jen Hovelsrud [00:17:21]:

And then write them down. Get yourself in trouble. There's fear. Right? I'm out there. I'm public.

Sara Payne [00:17:27]:

Yes. And but I also think, to that point, I think there are risks of not being on social media. And and like you said earlier, it it maybe was an option a few years ago. It's not an option anymore. And or there are risks of not participating in thought leadership on social media. So, you know, the risk of you saying something, right, that can't be managed, right, or or or handled in some way is gonna be pretty low. We're gonna put all these right filters in place. You know? That that's gonna be safe.

Sara Payne [00:18:01]:

Frankly, the risks of not participating are far greater.

Jen Hovelsrud [00:18:05]:

I I agree. I think they're far greater. And, also, let let's just say you you do even have a a slip up, which, again, I think is is relatively low risk when you've got people around you supporting you and you are already an expert. The the risk of not doing something is greater. It's guaranteed, and it's much more long term.

Sara Payne [00:18:23]:

Yeah. I mean, the if we're back at the getting them committed stage, I think some of the things that are fair to say is your competitors are gonna have a bigger megaphone than you. Yep. There's this giant channel over here that you're you're choosing to mute.

Jen Hovelsrud [00:18:39]:

Yeah.

Sara Payne [00:18:39]:

Right? With tremendous amount of axe access to real buyers out there. Absolutely. You're gonna have less visibility and influence. You're not gonna be seen as relevant. And that, to your point, has a lasting impact and and and danger to to the company and to the brand.

Jen Hovelsrud [00:18:56]:

Yeah. Absolutely. Question for you related to it. Do you think that it should be part of how we hire people going forward, and should it be something that we increasingly require in skills we cultivate in those moving up in our organizations?

Sara Payne [00:19:18]:

Yes.

Jen Hovelsrud [00:19:18]:

So do you think we will see that happening today?

Sara Payne [00:19:21]:

I think we are already seeing that. I think we are seeing it through you know, there there are people who have built a personal brand on social media that are quickly rising to the top of organizations because of the tremendous influence that they have built in the conversation on social media. Right? I can think of a few people, and I can't I can't think of their names right now off the top of my head, but where I have seen this happen where I go, I see what happened here. You built a brand because you're passionate about that. You've been out there talking about, you know, the need for earlier

Jen Hovelsrud [00:20:01]:

diagnosis around this particular

Sara Payne [00:20:01]:

health issue over here. Everyone needs to know about. I'm passionate about it too. Their following gets larger. Their visibility gets larger. Companies look at that and they go, we want a leader like that in our organization. We're a brand that's also passionate about that early detection for that disease state. Come over here.

Sara Payne [00:20:30]:

We're gonna put you, you know, vice president, senior vice president of this, you know, area of the business. And, of course, they got the double benefit of that. Right? They they have a tremendous leader that's already passionate about this topic, but they are also bringing with them this entire platform, a following. Right? They're influential, online. And so I do think that it is it's already happening. I think that increasingly, companies and organizations should be looking for that. Is it 100% a requisite? We're probably not there yet, but I think we're headed in that direction. What are your thoughts?

Jen Hovelsrud [00:21:09]:

The way that we take in in information and the way that companies can build relationships with people, we no longer can rely just on PR and marketing. So I think it becomes a core function of of employees in certain roles to make sure they're building those re relationships. And so I think it's not whether we want it to be or not or whether we think it is fair or should be. I think it's just the reality of the world we live in. Companies have to be more transparent. People working for these companies that therefore have to be more transparent. And I think we have to think more like ourselves as publishers than, you know, companies who advertise. It's it's an expectation of of, you know, our our customers, and I think the companies that learn to do that and do that well and authentically are the ones that are gonna win in the future and be able to build their brands.

Sara Payne [00:22:04]:

And I and I love this notion of of setting those expectations as you're looking at, you know, your your roster of future leaders and the talent pool that sits inside of your organization to say, you know, we're we're looking for those that are willing to to to step up and and become a multiplier of our thought leadership. And this is because it sets that expectation early. And and now you know. Right? And you can you can opt out of that. Organizations do that all over the place. These are the, you know, 10 things we look for in leaders future leaders of our company. And if this becomes one of them, you're either in or you're out on that, and that's okay. But it it allows people to, think about that, whether that's them or not, and then have time to, learn and do before it's prime time, and you're stepping literally stepping into the c suite.

Jen Hovelsrud [00:23:02]:

Yeah. Absolutely. We've we've talked for a long time, fair enough, about people who have executive presence. And I I think this may become part of what just fits in there. And, personally, regardless of the skills that you bring or how comfortable you are being out there, it's still relatively controlled and safe in terms of what you do put out there. I think it's easier to get someone skilled in being a thought leader on social media than it is to get someone really comfortable on stage personally. So I don't know that it's that far of a leap. Can I ask you, one other question coming from the other angle?

Sara Payne [00:23:41]:

Yeah.

Jen Hovelsrud [00:23:41]:

So, there are also companies that are, I think, afraid to build their brand through leader voices with the mentality of they're building their personal brand, not our brand, or what if they leave? So have you had, situations like that where you have actually had to convince a client that it is on in their best interest to put their executives out there?

Sara Payne [00:24:07]:

Yeah. So this is a common concern, if you will, of, you know, what happens now we've got all this sort of equity in that particular individual. And, you know, it it just is. Yep. It is. Right? And and I think that people understand that, you know, people make career transitions all the time. And, you know, while maybe years ago, it was like, oh my gosh. There must be scandalous.

Sara Payne [00:24:36]:

You know, there must be a story behind that. That person left. I think people understand that new opportunities come all the time. And so, and I think there's a way to sort of manage that transition and partner with that person on when they are leaving, sharing, you know, the why and the pride that they have for the company and the work that they've done. And the idea is that there isn't just one person for your brand that is sharing that leadership on social media because it mitigates the risk then. If you've got multiples, then it's less risky. And, partner with them upon a a transitional period in the branch. It'll also be like, we're, you know, saying farewell to, you know, Jen on, you know, our channels and off to the next thing.

Sara Payne [00:25:22]:

And and, you know, wow. Thank you for being partnering with us to advance the important conversation around these real issues in our industry. And they can, you know, shout out the the rest of the folks that are inside of that same you know, who are the other 4, 5, 6 leaders that are also doing that inside of the organization to kinda cross your follower base?

Jen Hovelsrud [00:25:44]:

I love what you said, and I'm gonna repeat it if that's okay for that reason. You aren't gonna keep yourself safe by staying off of social media and your executives in the in the back behind that. You're gonna keep yourself safe by having multiple voices out there so it isn't dependent upon one person, and I think that's a super important point.

Sara Payne [00:26:06]:

Yeah. And I like I said, I think this happens all the time that that people make transitions in their career. And, we shouldn't be afraid of that. We shouldn't let that be the thing that holds us back because guess what? It will happen. Yeah. So let's, let's give some examples of of executives who do this well inside of health care. Do you have some that come to mind for you, Jen, that you think do a nice job?

Jen Hovelsrud [00:26:31]:

Yeah. I think I have 2. I think there are a lot that do this and do this well and pave the path for others that do it very naturally. There are 2 women, just happen to be women, that come to mind for me in the health care space. So do you want me to list them? And then

Sara Payne [00:26:47]:

Yeah. Yeah. Say who they are and and and talk about what they're doing that, you think they do particularly well.

Jen Hovelsrud [00:26:54]:

Okay. And and I I think they're similar. Karen Lynch who leads, CVS and, Bryony Winn, who leads Carillon Health Solutions. I think they both, lead with their areas of passion, what they believe in, what's brought them to the industry. Particularly, I think Brian is great about engaging on the subject first. So she's not out there representing the brand. She's strengthening the brand as a result, but, she's good at being out there on the subject itself, being authentic and engaging with others, and being willing to carry on at least a short conversation online in a humble, authentic, real way.

Sara Payne [00:27:45]:

I love that.

Jen Hovelsrud [00:27:46]:

How about you?

Sara Payne [00:27:48]:

Well, to me, the case study on how to do this well has to be, in my mind, doctor Sushan Jain, CEO president and CEO of ScanHealth. Right? Like, I I say that name, and you're, like, nodding your head. He, to me, sets the bar in the industry. He one out of every, say, 10 to 15 posts is actually about his company, Scan Health, give or take. And this is pretty rare. I don't see a lot of other thought leaders or just leaders in general that could come close to getting that ratio right. A lot of executives have far more content in the promotional bucket, content about their own company, but but he he doesn't. And, you know, similar to what you said, about Karen and Breyani is that he his voice is really about being a champion for real change in health care and and topics that that he cares about, ethics within health care, good leadership traits, which, frankly, transcends the health industry.

Sara Payne [00:28:49]:

It's relevant to all industries. But then he also will talk about things like ageism, value based care, health equity. And and I'll tell you, this guy is on every podium.

Jen Hovelsrud [00:29:00]:

Yeah.

Sara Payne [00:29:01]:

He's on a podium at every one of the major conferences. And, you know, it's not that what's that?

Jen Hovelsrud [00:29:07]:

It pulls people in.

Sara Payne [00:29:09]:

It's not a coincidence. No. It is not a coincidence that he's getting these podiums. No. Another one sorry. Go ahead.

Jen Hovelsrud [00:29:16]:

Can I say one more thing? Yeah. And I think that that has transcended each organization that he has been been with too. And those organizations have benefited, from that greatly.

Sara Payne [00:29:31]:

Yeah. I just thought of another one, actually. Andy Slavitt. Yes. He was the voice everyone turned to during COVID when, you know, there was a lot of sort of, you know, misinformation out there, and he spent hours. Yep. Yeah. Hours upon hours scrolling through data and presenting factual information to help people make smart decisions.

Sara Payne [00:29:55]:

And we're not we don't have that need anymore, you know, in in the in the early stages and the throes of of COVID, but he he built a platform and a commitment to being the guy who was gonna talk about the real issues and and put forward factual information that that was gonna help people. That was that he wasn't one I was planning to mention, but but when you talked about, how it can span, you know, you can start out in this one sort of area and then make a transition. That's a great example where, you know, he sort of started out being the guy that was gonna help with information on on COVID 19, and and and here we are. And he's still out there talking about the change that's needed in health care. But another example, I wanted to share was, doctor Angela Fusaro. She's the founder of Physician 360, and they're they're all about reinventing primary care. But she she also does a really nice job of focusing on real issues within the industry, the mental health crisis for parents, diversity, equity, and inclusion. But one of the things that I really appreciate about what she does is a really good job of using video in her feed.

Sara Payne [00:31:03]:

She'll she'll turn on her camera, talk about what she's passionate about, and and we know that video performs really well on social, and it just helps people really connect authentically with the individual way better than than words, in the feed can do. And I think she's likely elevating her visibility as a result of of her, you know, very strong use of video.

Jen Hovelsrud [00:31:28]:

Yeah. And that and that doesn't have to be perfectly polished, and expensive on on social media either. I think what probably all of those examples have in common is they are really good at, being true to their lane, but giving being very clear that they're giving bringing value to the audience. So it they're not thinking of it as marketing.

Sara Payne [00:31:54]:

Or a scripted or even a scripted conversation. Right? It's just very spontaneous. Something happens, you know, warrants conversation, and, they're getting out there and sharing it.

Jen Hovelsrud [00:32:06]:

Yep.

Sara Payne [00:32:06]:

So I wanted to put a nice little bow, I think, on, what does good look like? I think, you know, we we illustrated some of that with these examples. You know, how do how do people really do it well? And and I think consistent presence is extremely important. Right? To me, good looks like posting 4 to 6 times a week. And I know that sounds like a lot. And maybe we start in the, you know, 2 to 4 or 3 to 5 range. Like, we we've gotta get started, but I think we gotta work up to 4 to 6 times a week. We mentioned talking about real issues Yep. That need to be addressed within the industry.

Sara Payne [00:32:41]:

80% of the time needs to be spent there, and the other 20% is for your company.

Jen Hovelsrud [00:32:46]:

Yes. Yes. I agree.

Sara Payne [00:32:48]:

And this is, probably a very unpopular opinion because a lot of the the executive leadership is spending more like a 100% of the time focused on the company initiatives.

Jen Hovelsrud [00:32:57]:

Yeah. And that, as we know, just it doesn't it doesn't work. We want it to work. It doesn't work. There's an audience there to gain, information for themselves. I would add to that also a certain amount of time. Nobody wants to go and hear a one-sided conversation either or someone who just wants to be on the bully pulpit. But I think to really convince people that you care about the community who is there and the issue, you need to also be seeking out exciting ideas from others and to some extent and in a careful way, engaging in a little bit of that back and forth.

Sara Payne [00:33:34]:

I totally agree. And and the algorithm is built for this. Right? There is a metrics driven conversation that the algorithm will reward you for meaningful engagement. So they need to pick their top 10, top 20 thought leaders that they admire and follow on LinkedIn, and then watch their feed for something to comment on to pose a a question around, in addition to then when people are commenting on their own posts, taking the time to go back and say, thank you for your comment. Thank you for your feedback. I love what you said there. This is really great perspective, because, again, the algorithm is is looking for that, but, also, the people are looking for that too.

Jen Hovelsrud [00:34:19]:

Yes. And being willing to say to someone else who may even be your competitor in the right situation, great job. I see what you all are doing there.

Sara Payne [00:34:28]:

I love that. That's such a confident that's such a confident statement. Right? To to to be able to reach out to a a competitor in the space and and pat them on the back for for a job well done because we're all, at the end of the day, striving towards the same thing, which is better better outcomes, better quality, and lower cost in health care. I love that sense of, you know, really, we're all on the same side of the table.

Jen Hovelsrud [00:34:52]:

Yeah. It I I think that's how you convince people that you are purpose driven. There's something that that people come about profits.

Sara Payne [00:35:00]:

Well, I think we're out of time in the conversation today, but I I just wanted to end by kinda recapping some of what you talked about. If your executives are not actively engaging on LinkedIn, now is the time to build a strategy and a framework around that. Make it a priority for 2025. Help them document their core beliefs. Help them make this something that can work into their week. Set them up for success, starting with that planning, empowering them, coaching them, boosting their confidence, giving them feedback along the way. Because what this is going to do for you and your brand is increase the reach of your thought leadership, increase trust. Your brand will be perceived more favorably.

Sara Payne [00:35:49]:

Support sales because buyers are more likely to buy from a brand that they trust and and that they see as engaging in meaningful conversations. And you will get more requests for press interviews and speaking engagements.

Jen Hovelsrud [00:36:02]:

Yeah. It's all related. Exactly what you said, Sara.

Sara Payne [00:36:06]:

Awesome. Well, thanks Jen, for, for, coming alongside of me in this conversation today. I had a lot of fun. I hope you did as well. I had a ball. Thank you. Yeah. And, and thanks to you, to our listeners for being part of the Health Marketing Collective, where strong leadership meets marketing excellence, because the future of health care depends on it.

Sara Payne [00:36:27]:

And if you're a fan of the show, do us a favor and subscribe wherever you get your podcasts. We'll catch you in Las Vegas.