Earned Trust: Why Media Still Matters in Healthcare

Welcome back to the Health Marketing Collective, where strong leadership meets marketing excellence. I'm your host, Sara Payne and I'm bringing you fascinating conversations with some of the industry's top marketing minds. Today we're unpacking a topic that's central to brand credibility, thought leadership and long term influence. But it feels especially urgent right now. The evolving role of earned media. We are in a moment where trust in media is eroding, AI is blurring the lines between fact and fabrication, and public skepticism is at an all time high. A recent Fortune article interviewing New York Times CEO Meredith Kopit Levian summed it up perfectly. Trust in the media has become both more fragile and more consequential.

Sara Payne [00:00:56]:

So what does that mean for health brands? And what should CMOs be thinking about differently in 2025? I'm thrilled to be joined by Linda Zebean, Vice President of Communications at Muckrack. Linda leads messaging issues, management and media strategy for the company. But she also brings a unique perspective from her decade at the New York Times where she helped shape communications for its growth, product and tech teams. She's seen firsthand how earned media can drive not just visibility, but real business results. Today we'll explore how the media landscape is shifting, what journalists need now from brands more than ever, and what's at stake for those who under invest and earn visibility. Let's get into it. Welcome to the show, Linda.

Linda Zebian [00:01:41]:

Thanks so much for having me, Sara. I'm really excited for our chat today.

Sara Payne [00:01:46]:

Yeah, thrilled to have you here. Let's start with, how would you describe the state of earned media right now?

Linda Zebian [00:01:54]:

Complex. You know, I think it's really interesting that you quoted my former colleague Meredith Levy, and I'm gonna have to share this podcast with her once it's out.

Sara Payne [00:02:05]:

That Fortune article that just came out on her, it was a fascinating group.

Linda Zebian [00:02:09]:

I did see it. I. She's, she's a fascinating human. We, we worked actually very closely together when I was at the Times, and I believe wholeheartedly still in the mission of that organization. It was the honor of my life to, to do comms for an organization like that. The state of earn, the state of journalism. You know, every, every year goes by and every year we're like, I feel like we're saying this is the most complicated year for media, for earned media, for pr, for comms. And it never ceases to amaze me that it becomes more and more complex.

Linda Zebian [00:02:51]:

And I feel like folks are constantly saying it's the worst year or it's never been so bad. And I think folks are still saying that in 2025, but I also see from my perspective, lots of glimmer of hope. And I think a lot of people see AI and technology as a threat, but I actually see it as a gigantic opportunity. And I haven't seen promise for earned and traditional journalism in, in my career as promising, I guess, as I have. And that's, that's for one significant reason, and that is the power of, of GEO in, in the sense that LLMs are sourcing credible news organizations much more than they're sourcing, let's say, content creators and, and social media sources, right? If you go on an LLM and you're saying, tell me what the best lawnmower is to buy, they're going to credible news organizations for that information and they're going to surface credible reported content to supply you with that information. Right? They're not going to, you know, content creator XYZ to get their opinion, but really vetted reported news. So what does that mean? How does that in turn help journalism? And, and then how does that in turn boost PR and comms professionals? Right? It's an ecosystem that actually will flourish if the AI, if the folks, you know, powering the tech, A, pay for that content. We, you can be seeing like tons of, tons of lawsuits that are alive and well, right? So we need to need to pay for the, pay the traditional media outlets for their, for their content that's being used.

Linda Zebian [00:04:52]:

And B, you know, that to me is an empowerment of our profession and almost a rebirth of the power of earned. So I've been waiting for the rebirth of the power of earned for a heck of a long time, right? How many journalists, how many PR pros are there to journalists? The ratio has just been going up and up and up. Journalists are like, you know, their wages have been stagnant for God knows how many years. Like, we can get into it, but. But that's a doozy of an answer for an opening question. But I can't wait to get into it with you. But that's how I feel. I feel like we're at a moment of opportunity for journalism I love right now.

Sara Payne [00:05:30]:

Yeah, I love that framing. I love the optimism around that, and I believe in that. I mean, I'm a firm believer in the power of earned. Went to journalism school myself. Chose the PR path much like you did, and I believe in it too. And despite these challenges that we've been facing, how it transpires from my perspective is brands continue to double down on the investment in Earned even despite some of the evolving dynamics and some of the pressures that, which is a byproduct of some of the pressures that journalists face, which you just began to get into there, let's actually go there. You have access, you see trends through the Muck Rack lens that most marketing leaders don't have access to. What are some of the pressures that journalists are facing today that marketing leaders should make sure that they understand?

Linda Zebian [00:06:32]:

Well, I mean we, so we survey journalists every year we have a report that comes out that just came out called our state of work Life Balance and journalism here at Muck Rack. And, and for the folks who don't know Muckrack, we are a PR software platform used by 6000 Brands and Agencies. PR Brands. PR Brands. I'm sorry if you don't know Muckrack, we are a PR and comm software platform and we're used by 6,000 brands and agencies all over the world. And we, we originated it as a journalist, a free journalist tool. We still provide journalism journalists with free tools, including portfolios and trends tools and data, data tools, et cetera. We've committed to journalists to provide free tools for them forever.

Linda Zebian [00:07:33]:

So we service both journalists and PR pros, but we do survey them every year to find out like, what's, you know, what's it like to be a journalist in 2025. And so in our work Life Balance report this year, we found significant, significant stress and burnout. So half of journalists we found considered quitting due to burnout in the last year. Half. Wow, that's a high number. Very high. Right? We know, we know like it's stressful to be a journalist. We know kind of, you know, the news is crazy.

Linda Zebian [00:08:10]:

It's a crazy world we live in, but that seems really, really crazy. And that many journalists, 42% have actually previously quit a job because of burnout. So we know as PR people and probably marketers too, we all work in quick moving, high stress environments. Journalists are right there with us. Right. But you know what? Despite that, more than half say they plan to stay in journalism, which I think is a good sign. We need journalists and journalism in a free society. Absolutely.

Linda Zebian [00:08:52]:

It's part of the constitution here in the United States. We know that. So free democracy needs free society. A free society needs journalism. So, you know, we had actually thought too when we put the survey out, maybe it's associated with like the 2024 election cycle, but it really wasn't. We found we, we survey journalists. It really wasn't. Stress remained high even after the election cycle.

Linda Zebian [00:09:20]:

So. Yeah. And, and, and mental health just kind of declining. Mental health kind of stayed high. So that's really what we found. And in terms of sources of stress, workload, kind of having to be always on and salary were the top sources. We found that journalists are earning pretty much regardless of how long they've been a journalist, around 70k on average per year. Which to me when you're thinking about a lot of these journalists probably live in metropolitan areas where there's high density of people is bananas.

Sara Payne [00:10:00]:

Yeah, yeah.

Linda Zebian [00:10:01]:

Pretty low bananas. Yeah.

Sara Payne [00:10:05]:

So when we think about these pressures and the burnout, I mean I love this statement that many of them are still committed to staying in the industry. Right. I mean that's what allows us to hold on to that, that optimism.

Linda Zebian [00:10:20]:

Right.

Sara Payne [00:10:21]:

But how can we as brands serve them better to help in this reality that they face of. Of high stress? What, what's your take on what brands can do better in interacting with journalists and pro making sure that they are not wasting their time and providing value.

Linda Zebian [00:10:48]:

Absolutely. So I think what a lot of folks need to know about pitching and talking to journalists is. And then at Muckrack we have sort of, we use technology to put safeguards in place for this. Of course there are best practices for pitching the media. Right. But also you can use technology to put checks and balances in place. Right. Mass pitching, never a good idea.

Linda Zebian [00:11:12]:

Unless you are a giant brand and everybody's waiting for you to make a statement on something. Never mass pitch, period. It's unacceptable. Don't do it. Just don't. So targeted one, and we've done research on this by the way, so the proof was in the pudding, it's in the data. Here's what the perfect pitch should look like. If you are, let's say, a marketer.

Linda Zebian [00:11:35]:

If you're working at a small healthcare company, maybe you don't have a full time agency. Maybe you're just trying to pitch on your own, maybe you're in a startup environment, whatever. Okay. If you're trying to pitch a journalist, email is preferred. Always. Don't call them usually. Okay, so email one on one email, less than 200 words in your pitch. Pitch them earlier in the day.

Linda Zebian [00:12:02]:

Think about deadlines. We're on deadline. Journalists are on deadline still. So I would do it before 2 o' clock in the afternoon, wherever time zone you're in and keep it under 200 words. Bullets are your friend. Use a bullet. Okay. And earlier in the week is better because the closer you get to Friday.

Sara Payne [00:12:23]:

The less they Care.

Linda Zebian [00:12:26]:

Think like a journalist if, if at all possible when you're writing a pitch. So. And it's not what matters to you in your pitch. Nobody cares that you have a milestone coming up at your hospital or at your pharma company. Nobody cares that you're celebrating a moment. Good for you, happy for you. But that's not a news item. Okay? So you, and really, it doesn't matter what the journalist even thinks.

Linda Zebian [00:12:55]:

It's actually what matters to the journalist's audience, what they think, what matters to the people that are reading that journalist's content. So it's really not personal to the journalist at all. And it's not personal to you. That's not personal to your CEO either. Right. It's to that reader, to those eyeballs or those eardrums. Right. So think about it from the perspective.

Linda Zebian [00:13:18]:

So the first thing you need to do is to read or listen to what they're creating and then write a pitch based on that. And that's essential to a pitch. One follow up is okay, one to three days after you pitch. More than that, just stop, you're going to turn them off. And also PR is about relationships. So if you really want to get in touch and build a relationship with a journalist, try to reach out to them about something that's not a pitch. Something that, when you're not trying to get something out of them, so say hey, I heard you speak on that panel. Or hey, I read your piece about the breakthrough in research from XYZ organization.

Linda Zebian [00:13:59]:

I thought it was this line was brilliant. Or hey, I saw your video on your social media about whatever. Right. Try to build a relationship with them that's genuine. They're, they're much better to respond to you or at least tell you what's wrong with your pitch and why they're not engaging with you. If they understand who you are, engage with them on social, send them a note, whatever it is. Also, it's not always about getting into the biggest, most widely circulated, widely listened to, widely read outlet. Right.

Sara Payne [00:14:29]:

Some.

Linda Zebian [00:14:30]:

Sometimes it's about building relationships with these niche and trade publications because those, that's the audience that matters most to you. So it's strategic. Comms is really complicated as most marketers probably understand at this point. But you really need to have a full understanding of your earned, earned, earned strategy. It's not just kind of like throwing things at the wall and sticking and seeing if they stick. If that makes sense. We could talk forever.

Sara Payne [00:15:00]:

Yeah, for sure. Such great advice there that you offered. Lynn, I was curious Going back to your earlier reference to your recent report, State of the Workforce or, or forget exactly how you work life balance. Yeah, thank you.

Linda Zebian [00:15:14]:

Work life balance.

Sara Payne [00:15:15]:

Did you, did you survey both sort of more, more mainstream journalists as well as some of these more niche trade publications? How did that audience break down, look in that survey?

Linda Zebian [00:15:33]:

So we don't have a breakdown of exactly who they were. It was 432journalists beginning of this year. Most of them are in the United States, some in the uk, India and Canada. But they were, you know, at freelancers, full time journalists pod, you know, any podcasters? Yeah, we didn't break it down by that. All of the above. Yeah. Great.

Sara Payne [00:15:57]:

In your time leading external comms at the New York Times, one thing I really find fascinating about that is that you had this unique challenge of pitching stories about the Times to reporters at the Times, right. Like there wasn't some back door that you get to sneak through because, because you were inside the organization. Like you equally had to pitch those news stories to be worthy of coverage in the New York Times. And you know, I know you just offered a bunch of advice around how to be valuable to journalists, but anything else that that experience taught you about the art of breaking through?

Linda Zebian [00:16:43]:

Yeah, I mean, I would say it was almost, even harder. They almost had a higher bar to, to cover themselves. You know, of course you're going to pitch the media desk, right? At the, within the business desk at the New York Times, you had, we had to talk to the media desk and then the reporter that covered, you know, primarily news publishing. You know, I think that the, the tip there was that A, you had to build a relationship with that journalist who was covering you and B, you had to give them exclusives, primarily at the New York Times. Specifically. They want exclusives, right? The New York Times, Bloomberg, the Wall Street Journal, they want exclusive, they want access, they want numbers, they want things you're probably not willing to give them. And also it's their job to ask, right? So just because the reporter asks for something doesn't mean that they are bad, wrong, mean, evil. It is their job to ask and it is your job as the PR person to ask, to filter and to decline and to negotiate and to say, well, we're not going to give you that, but what I can give you is this.

Linda Zebian [00:17:49]:

And it's your job to create a story to protect the brand that you are representing, but also to share enough information that you can tell the story to make it interesting and engaging and also be transparent. Right. Especially if, you know, all earned is not positive. You could also be trying to massage a narrative that is surrounding your brand, particularly in healthcare. Right. Sometimes we don't want a story to come out or there's a story that's coming out, or a series of stories or a narrative that's happening that we don't particularly love. Right. But we can steer it in certain ways by using, urn, strategically to, to steer it in a direction that we like a little bit better or that works a little better for us.

Linda Zebian [00:18:38]:

And so I think that's actually more important than placing positive stories in this environment because real journalists probably aren't going to help you tell your positive story all that much. That's what owned is for, right? That's what social is for, right? Earned is really about understanding what people are saying about you and massaging it into something a little bit more favorable toward your brand. And so that's the really tricky part about earned. And you may have an agency who can work on all of your positive fluffy good news, but if you're an in house marketer, if you're an in house PR person, it's really more that ongoing working on steering the conversation in ways that you want an overall perception and tone that, that you get with earned. And so I think, you know, that those ongoing conversations and those conversations that don't actually end up in print are the, some of the most important work you'll do as a, as a PR and comms professional.

Sara Payne [00:19:44]:

Yeah, I love that perspective and the advice around steering the conversation, really focusing your efforts there, which I think is particularly relevant for larger organizations, larger brands that are well known, that are going to have, you know, maybe more risk or chance of these, you know, potentially negative narratives coming through. Not always, but you know, smaller startup organizations are just going to be lesser known. So they're simply not maybe fully on the radar yet. And I think one of the strategies that works really well there is thinking to your earlier point, less about the milestone or the story that you want to tell, but rather thinking about what the audience and the journalist needs, right? Which is meaningful, unique contributions to topics that everyone is talking about, like bringing something new to the conversation, rather than the same old, same old perspective on the future of healthcare. Like bringing something truly bold, unique and having, to your point, the data to back that up, which isn't, again, hey, look how great we are. It's more, hey, this, there's, there's this important conversation over here we should be having as an industry and I think, you know, your readers care about, but doing that From a truly unique data backed perspective.

Linda Zebian [00:21:10]:

Yeah, yeah. We also do a State of Journalism which is a survey actually coming out. So this is State of Work life Balance which is really kind of gets into sort of the, the minds and hearts of journalists. But we have a survey coming out beginning of June called State of Journalism which is more looking at the practice of journalism and how PR folks and journalists work together like more in the practical day to day. And we have a question in there every year about like sources and the validity or the accountability and value of certain kinds of sources. And CEOs tend to rank pretty low. You've got kind of academics and academics in there. Researchers like that rank pretty high in terms of value just because they're neutral.

Linda Zebian [00:21:54]:

Right. CEOs obviously are kind of more viewed as bias or having an agenda to drive. So if you're in healthcare, particularly for profit healthcare, you've got. And you want to. It's newsjacking. Right? That's what we're talking about here. Like inserting yourself into a conversation that's trending or already happening on social or in the news or whatever. So you know, I would say the tip there is not be like oh hey, you know, there's a diabetes conversation going around or some new data out and my CEO can talk about that pitch.

Linda Zebian [00:22:26]:

Send. Lame. Nobody's going to call you. Right? I'm sorry, Nobody's going to call you. What's your CEO? Why, why am I going to call your CEO? No, no one's going to call them. So why is your CEO relevant? What do they have to say? Send the quote directly. Get the quote from your CEO. Write it for them.

Linda Zebian [00:22:48]:

Probably. Let's be real. You're going to write it for them. Yeah. Right. Get it approved. Why is it unique? Why is it different? Where's the data point? Where's the newsy item? Where's the provocative thing? What did they say that's going to make a headline? Okay, so and so hospital system, so and so health care, so and so tech company AI tech company has this and they said this and it's a little bit snazzy and I can see it on a chiron on a screen and oh my gosh, we're going to get three more calls from three more journalists who want to talk to that CEO. And if you don't think that that's going to happen and you probably shouldn't send that pitch today.

Linda Zebian [00:23:17]:

Yeah, I always tell my, my, my, the folks who work for me, if you don't feel more than 60 to 70% sure that your pitch is going to land. Don't send it, don't send it. Any agency that tells you that they're sending pitches X amount of times a week or whatever, they're counting pitches or using pitch pitches as a KPI run because pitches don't matter. You should be, you should never send the pitch unless you're confident that it's going to land. And frankly we don't do that much pitching in my team because there's not all that much news to share.

Sara Payne [00:23:56]:

And that's you're pitching when you know you have a great story, which means your, your, your hit rate is, your success rate is much higher.

Linda Zebian [00:24:04]:

Exactly. And so that's another way that you can build credibility with journalists. Every time you send a crappy pitch, your credibility goes way down. And I will say back to your New York Times question. The reason that the New York Times has such a well respected comms team is because a, they respond, they respond like quick, right? And they know that like if, if a broadcaster producer is looking for a guest that the New York Times comps team will respond almost immediately and they're super responsive even if they don't have someone to offer a spokesperson to offer. But also like they know, they know exactly how media works. They know exactly how the interview process will go. They know how the fact check will go, you know, and they're professionals and they also don't pitch junk.

Linda Zebian [00:24:55]:

Right. So you're youe own reputation, even if you leave your current company as a PR person, you go to someone else, that journalist's gonna, you're probably gonna stay in the same industry. The journalist's gonna remember who you are. They know who you are. They're gonna be like, oh this, they may not even open your email. This person pitches junk. You don't want to be that person.

Sara Payne [00:25:14]:

Yeah, right. Yeah, yeah, 100%. And I, I think this is such a great context for, for client side leaders to have as well. Because I think sometimes that you know, the, the agencies out there that are maybe focused on, you know, pitch counts or whatever. It's, it's, it's because of pressure on the client side. Yeah, right. Of, of what have you done for me lately? Or you know, where, where are we at? And I think you know, continually education and reinforcing these things and it really is, it's not about the volume of pitches that go out the door. Increasing the number of pitch send out the door, does that increase your chances of getting a hit? It doesn't.

Sara Payne [00:25:57]:

It is the Quality of the pitch to the right reporter in the right moment, that is going to increase your chance. That is the art of media relations.

Linda Zebian [00:26:08]:

Yeah, it's, it's storytelling and it's, and it's nailing it. Because journalists are storytellers and it is a partnership if whether journalists want to admit it or not. And maybe, I mean, maybe it's maybe, I mean, listen, I, I, I'm not saying that journalists get their, get their best ideas from PR people. Absolutely not. But when push, when my dog's trying to get in. But when push comes to shove, like, a lot of times journalists need us too. We are the gatekeepers in a lot of cases. Right.

Linda Zebian [00:26:40]:

It is a give and take. And so we're all storytellers. We're all trying to get the best results. And, but like, you know, if we don't want to be seen as npr, as flax or as, you know, whatever. I hate that word. You know, I think it's getting better. I think, I really do think it's getting better. But to your point, it's not, you know, the agencies, it's not the agencies that are really pushing it.

Linda Zebian [00:27:09]:

Like, the agencies, I think get a lot of bad rep, a lot for like, what do they call them, Pitch houses? This is the, I heard this term a while back and I never heard that term before. Like, there are certain agents that are known, that are known as pitch houses. And it's actually really sad because it's like, well, is that really, I mean, agencies are, are the best of the best. Like, these folks know what they're doing. They know bass pitching is not right, but it's because the clients are like, well, I'm paying you xyz. I need to see concrete results. But like, what about all that stuff, all that relationship building in the background and all the other stuff that we're doing? Then I wonder, like, you know, I don't know the intimacies of these relationships, but still, it's just like we all have to lower the expectation and understand all of the work and building relationships outside of numbers of, number of pitches, pitches sent, which is like metrics is a whole nother conversation.

Sara Payne [00:27:59]:

Yeah, whole other conversation for sure.

Linda Zebian [00:28:01]:

Yeah.

Sara Payne [00:28:03]:

What do you see as sort of the, the role of earned media moving forward for brands? You know, CMOs are listening and thinking, gosh, you know, there's some challenges there, but what should we do with our investment in earned media? What's your perspective on that, Linda?

Linda Zebian [00:28:25]:

Yeah, and I think this goes back to where we started. It's that geo, like, you know, the Generative engine optimization replacing SEO. So I think if you're a brand and you're thinking about SEO, not saying SEO is dead, but GEO has to be considered. And if you are, if you care about SEO, then you got to care about Geo. And if you care about geo, you got to care about earned. On the flip side of that or on the other side of that coin is reputation. And reputation, like every time I think that reputation is not going to maybe matter as much, it kind of just does. Right.

Linda Zebian [00:29:13]:

And I think it's just the general. I swear, I like, I think like, you know, like sometimes with the politics, like, oh, you know, the DEI conversation is shifting and people are moving away from DEI and you can't say dei and, but then, you know, you can't ignore the fact that like the, the consumers that are, you know, the millennials are still here.

Sara Payne [00:29:33]:

Yes.

Linda Zebian [00:29:34]:

Gen Z's are coming and they care. They associate. They put their dollars into brands that they believe in.

Sara Payne [00:29:47]:

Absolutely.

Linda Zebian [00:29:47]:

So when that is the just the dang truth, whatever side of the aisle you sit on politically and you, and you want to make money, you have to care about your reputation. And that is for whatever it could because we live in a polarized world. So whatever color, whatever, whatever you want, whatever audience, whatever person you, whatever, whoever your customer is, you have to speak to them in their language if you want them to buy from you. So whatever. And that. And that will drive your reputation. So you could think about it on both sides of the aisle. So your reputation matters and your brand means something.

Linda Zebian [00:30:25]:

Your brand just can't be, you know, grass anymore. It has to be red or grass. And that's just the way it is. So like, and that's all comms. And that's all comes through earned, you know, and comms isn't just earned. It's not just that. It's all the messaging and all of the mission and, and all of the representation and everything you say and everything you position and everything, it's all in church wine. And that is your comms team.

Linda Zebian [00:30:55]:

And that is all comes through earned and earned in social and internal comms. And you know, what you're saying to your employees and what their employees are saying about you on Glassdoor. You know, every. It all is the same. And it's all run by the same folks.

Sara Payne [00:31:11]:

Absolutely.

Linda Zebian [00:31:12]:

Yeah.

Sara Payne [00:31:12]:

I mean, I agree with you 100%. I mean, there, there are risks to not showing up in the conversation. Right. Like that, that is really not an option. Right. To just simply not Participate because there are, there are impacts if you are not a part of the conversation. And, and I agree with what you're saying on, on stand up for something. But be consistent with that.

Sara Payne [00:31:35]:

Don't. Yeah, it can't be flavor of the day DEI cool today, not cool tomorrow. Right. Like, if that is part of your central to your mission and existence as an organization and you have been investing in that, hiring against that, like it has become a core principle of decisions you make in your business, then leverage that. Right, right. And be consistent with it. Because to your point, there isn't a segment of the population that cares about that very deeply. And I think we're seeing play out in real time right now, people changing their buying behaviors based on what they've seen from companies that maybe historically invested in dei.

Sara Payne [00:32:25]:

And they're seeing a shift in that happen right now. Because now we're wondering where do you stand on this? All those years of telling me you did care about that, what changed exactly?

Linda Zebian [00:32:37]:

And if you didn't make a stand before, that's cool. But don't like, you can't, you just can't just, you know, maybe it's not your thing shift with the wind because you had, you had somebody who's loyal to you for maybe particular, that particular means. And it's just, I think, I think that the lesson in all of it is be genuine and stick to your genuine core values. And core values are a real thing. And I think transparency and authenticity is coming up more and more. And I think, you know, the, the, the younger generations can see that and they want to see that from the brands that they buy from. They want to see that from the companies they're working for and that's okay. Authenticity is a.

Linda Zebian [00:33:19]:

Really want to see that from the government officials they vote for. It's not so much, you know, whatever. They're not voting, they're voting on, on issues like almost of the heart now. Right. Rather than more policy. So like you have a, so you know, whether you're working, you might be working in like, you know, health policy or something like, we have to remember these things. And we have to start. We're comms people.

Linda Zebian [00:33:46]:

We have to, we have to address and marketers, we dress the Personas and the audiences. So keep that in mind. And back to your question about earned and how it fits. You know, I think, I think now more than ever earned and paid in revenue, marketing and you know, the owned and social, they all are going to be working together even more than before. But I frankly just Happy for us earned folks that, you know, we're, we're part of the, part of the core now and, and we're not kind of the afterthought, perhaps we're not being brought in to pick to clean up the mess. That's kind of why I joined Mock Rack. I left the Times to come to this company because I believed in it and I wanted to help folks like me have a bigger piece of the pie and a bigger voice and have the tech that we deserve to have.

Sara Payne [00:34:45]:

Yeah.

Linda Zebian [00:34:45]:

So to be a part of building the technology and the tools for folks like me has just been another honor after leaving the Times. Another honor. And I feel, you know, honored to be a part of it all. But like, you know, it's really good. It's really good. We can all work together. There's room for all of us.

Sara Payne [00:35:04]:

So, yeah, I love the progress that we have made and thank you for continuing to be a part of that. And I think this is a good place to segue into a few quick fire questions here before we wrap up. Linda. The first one is we. We tell our clients that showing up consistently in earned media isn't just about visibility, but it's about building trust. What's one signal that tells you a brand is earning that trust in the right way?

Linda Zebian [00:35:34]:

People take pictures of their. Of themselves, like with your brand, and they share it on their Instagram stories.

Sara Payne [00:35:44]:

Love that. We believe great spokespeople aren't just media trained, they're mission aligned. What's one trait that makes a spokesperson truly stand out when representing a brand in earned media?

Linda Zebian [00:35:57]:

Well, they provide a customer example.

Sara Payne [00:35:59]:

That's. I love that. That's great. Fill in the blank on this one. The future of earned media will belong to brands that blank are authentic.

Linda Zebian [00:36:11]:

Love it.

Sara Payne [00:36:12]:

Okay, Last 1. What's one PR or media buzzword you wish we could just ban forever?

Linda Zebian [00:36:18]:

Evolving media landscape.

Sara Payne [00:36:21]:

I think I did use that earlier on. I use it too in this episode.

Linda Zebian [00:36:26]:

I hate it.

Sara Payne [00:36:28]:

We'll scratch it all. We'll scratch it all. Linda, this has been amazing. Thank you so much for joining me. Thank you for being candid with us, giving us that behind the scenes perspective on how brands can show up more effectively in today's media environment. How can our listeners get in touch with you or get their hands on these valuable reports coming out of Muck Rack?

Linda Zebian [00:36:52]:

They can reach me on LinkedIn. Very active there. Please give me a follow and let's have conversations and they can download all of Muckrack's research and data for free@muckrack.com wonderful.

Sara Payne [00:37:07]:

Thanks again. Thanks so much for joining me today.

Linda Zebian [00:37:09]:

Thanks for having me, Sara. It was so much fun for all.

Sara Payne [00:37:13]:

The CMOs and health marketing leaders listening out there. Earned media is not just about press hits. It's about trust, timing, and showing up when it matters most. If you're looking to sharpen your earned media strategy or just back better understand how journalists work today, be sure to check out that latest research that Linda was talking about. We'll definitely be sure to link link to it in our show notes. Thanks so much for tuning in to the Health Marketing Collective where strong leadership meets marketing excellence because the future of healthcare depends on it. We'll see you next time.