Amplify Your Voice: Podcasting as a Thought Leadership Tool

Sara Payne [00:00:10]:

Welcome back to the Health Marketing Collective, where strong leadership meets marketing excellence. I'm your host, Sara Payne, and I'm bringing you fascinating conversations with some of the industry's top marketing minds. On today's episode, we're talking about podcasts. They've become one of the most powerful tools for building thought leadership. But how do you know if it's right for your brand? We'll break down the pros, the pitfalls, and everything in between to help you decide if podcasting is the right fit for your thought leadership strategy. Sara brings incredible expertise and insight into what makes a podcast succeed. She's an award winning author, podcast producer, and brand architect with a knack for turning narratives into connection. She founded Favorite Daughter Media where she helps businesses develop thought leadership strategies and connect with their audiences.

Sara Payne [00:00:59]:

She also launched a book earlier this year called Open This Book, The Art of Storytelling for Aspiring Thought Leaders, and you can get your own copy on Amazon. She has so much knowledge and experience to share on this topic, so I'm thrilled to have Sara on the show today. Welcome.

Sara Lohse [00:01:16]:

I'm so glad this is recorded because that was the best intro I've ever gotten.

Sara Payne [00:01:21]:

So that one be your parents. Right?

Sara Lohse [00:01:23]:

Yes. I'm going because that's gonna be my ringtone.

Sara Payne [00:01:27]:

Love it. Well, I'm just thrilled to have you here. Obviously, this this podcast, the show would not be here without you and our other producer, Larry Roberts. You've got so much experience. You've worked on so many episodes, not only as a producer, but also as a podcast host yourself. So I thought maybe we'd start with a conversation around why podcast. Like, what's one thing that really stands out to you about the podcast format in particular compared to other forms of media when you think about great platforms for thought leadership?

Sara Lohse [00:02:05]:

Yeah. I think with podcasting, the best part, in my opinion, is how personal it is. Because with most marketing communications, it's so, like, scripted. It's so, like, by the book. It's, the format is always kind of, like, stoic, and it's TV ads and things that are just so impersonal. But with a podcast, it's a conversation, and it's the face of the brand. It's not a sales message. It's just you and me talking about what we're passionate about, and it lets people actually get to know us.

Sara Lohse [00:02:39]:

Instead of just seeing a company, they see the person behind the brand. And it just it's so great for building trust, building a community. It's I'm a little obsessed with them. I'm not gonna lie.

Sara Payne [00:02:50]:

Yeah. And you're so right on all of those things. I I I agree that the authenticity of the people behind the brand, you know, if you wanna be a thought leader, it isn't just thought leadership as a brand. It is bringing forward literally the thought leaders, right, who are the experts at solving these gnarly problems in the industry, actually bringing that forward in a real authentic way, and I think podcasts are a great way to do that. The other thing I wanted to add on to that is that I don't wanna make it sound like they're not a lot of work. They are a lot of work. But when you think about you hit record and 30 minutes later, you you have a a piece of content, yes, some back end production is needed, but that's ready that's ready to go versus a 1500 word article that's gonna go through 5 rounds of revisions over a 3 week period of time. Right? It it is a way to allow your thought leadership to happen in a very rapid, dynamic sort of way.

Sara Payne [00:03:50]:

And I think there's a brilliance to that.

Sara Lohse [00:03:53]:

Yeah. And it's not just the that it's it's rapid, but it's more genuine. Yes. I'm gonna write an article. I'm gonna write it, and then I'm gonna rewrite it. And then I'm gonna put you through an AI to prove it. Overthink it. Yeah.

Sara Lohse [00:04:06]:

You overthink it. You do like, it's so many revisions before it actually goes out. But with a podcast, this is it. Like, we're we're talking what we say is what you hear, and what you see is what you get. So I think that is another piece of it with you don't have to try to make everything perfect. If you just kind of come as you are, and I love that. It just leads into that authenticity and just being who you are. But then it also does make the whole content creation side easier too because you take one podcast episode that's 30 minutes, and you can have social media content for the month Yes.

Sara Lohse [00:04:42]:

If you repurpose it. You have blog posts, you have quote graphics, you have reels, audiograms, all of these different pieces of content that you just take from this one larger piece, and it just simplifies the process.

Sara Payne [00:04:55]:

I totally agree with that. And and there you know, we'll get into it. There's a lot of obviously hard work that goes into the upfront planning, and and this is hard work, but it can be a great way to make sure you've got regular recurring content that can be repurposed into multiple different channels. So let's talk a little bit about some of the signs, that producing a podcast might be the right fit for a brand. Like, when do you think it's a good idea for a brand to

Sara Lohse [00:05:24]:

start their own podcast? I I think it's really if they have somebody who is comfortable being the voice or the face of the brand and that is comfortable speaking and having a conversation, it there's no reason not to do it. At this point, so many companies are doing this, and it's becoming, like, the number one, basically, marketing channel. And if you're not doing it, you're almost kinda missing the boat, because it's just growing so fast. But you also you don't wanna force it. So if you don't have somebody that feels comfortable speaking and is able to do this in a way that's, authentic and doesn't feel forced, because then it just gets a little

Sara Payne [00:06:09]:

Yes. Totally. Yeah. And I think, you know, if somebody wants to be truly wants to be a leading voice on a particular topic in the health care industry, the podcast platform is a really powerful platform for owning that topic, and and getting your brand out there. But you also have to be committed to it for the long term.

Sara Lohse [00:06:32]:

Yes.

Sara Payne [00:06:32]:

Right? You have to be committed to producing it regularly. You know, I would say to folks, don't produce a podcast if if the vision of what is in your mind or your executive team's mind is really just 5 or 6 episodes worth of content. Right? Like, you have to be able to see that longer term editorial vision that has some legs to it. This is not really the platform for it to be more of a one and done type of thing.

Sara Lohse [00:07:00]:

Yeah. For the most part, yeah, there are, like, opportunities to create some of those, just like almost one and done, and we call them, like, micro series.

Sara Payne [00:07:10]:

Kinda like a webinar series would be kind of the same thing. Right?

Sara Lohse [00:07:13]:

Yeah. Yeah. So there's and there's really powerful ways to use those too, using them for, like, new client onboarding or team onboarding for your company, like, introductory ways of of, like, getting the just the foundational concepts of your brand understood. And use that, do a couple, like, 6 episodes and just have them be evergreen. And that is a really great way to get that that information across. But for the most part, yes, a podcast is a long game, and you're not going to start really seeing the results that you expect from it until you're probably, like, at least a year in. So you have to have that patience, but be committed to it and be excited about it the whole time. Because if you start out as, like, this is gonna be great.

Sara Lohse [00:07:57]:

We got this. This is gonna change the shape of our brand. And then your 6 episodes in, and you're, like, this isn't this isn't changed the brand yet.

Sara Payne [00:08:04]:

Right. Where are the leads?

Sara Lohse [00:08:06]:

Yeah. Like, it doesn't happen overnight. You need to take the time to build your audience, build the trust, build all of the, the growth that you're looking for, and then you're going to start to see all of those results start trickling in.

Sara Payne [00:08:20]:

Yeah. I love that you put that 12 month fence post out there because I I think you're right. I think it's realistic to be thinking at this more, in the long term. And it is because that's what thought leadership is. Thought leadership is intended to be, you know, more top of funnel, focused on problem solving, you know, identifying those people that have that problem and and and building a relationship with them over time, not, you know, middle funnel to bottom funnel when people are, you know, more looking for a product. Right? And so this is a great way from an awareness building standpoint to get your brand out there, get your experts out there, build that relationship over time.

Sara Lohse [00:08:58]:

Yeah. And it builds credibility. And that part is super important too. And it you don't even have to wait the year, year and a half to see the credibility results because those can be pretty instant if you have a podcast and you're you're constantly talking about the subjects you're an expert in. That credibility is there. So if someone finds you and they wanna see, like, is this person legit? They go to your social media because they don't go to websites anymore. Those days are gone. They go straight to your social.

Sara Lohse [00:09:27]:

And they see, like, oh, this I did this podcast, and I was a guest on this podcast, and here's the one that I host. It's right there, like, okay, this person must know what they're talking about, or else they wouldn't be doing all of these podcasts.

Sara Payne [00:09:38]:

2 things I wanna say about that. 1 is so many of our clients wanna get podiums at conferences. Right? They wanna be accepted to speak at conferences. And what you just said is another great example of not just, winning new business or earning new business. Right? It's also about earning those opportunities to get on the stage. To your point, they're not going to your site and looking at your bio. They're going to your social media platforms to see that you are in fact posting content that lines up with the abstract that you are gonna submit. And I almost every single one of our clients has a goal and objective to get more speaking opportunities at these conferences.

Sara Payne [00:10:13]:

They're highly competitive. And if the the panelists that are choosing those, the committee that's choosing those speakers to speak go to your social media platform and they don't see this type of content out there, you're not gonna get you're not gonna get the ask. Right? So, I I do think that podcasting also lines up for, achieving those types of objectives as well.

Sara Lohse [00:10:35]:

Yeah. It's it's kind of like a step one for creating a speaker reel, because it's it's like it always makes me think of when I was in college applying for internships, but you couldn't get the internship without an internship.

Sara Payne [00:10:46]:

I know. Yes. Yes.

Sara Lohse [00:10:48]:

It's like when you buy scissors, but you need scissors to open the package. How do you get a speaker reel if you don't have opportunities to be a speaker?

Sara Payne [00:10:56]:

You've done podcasts.

Sara Lohse [00:10:57]:

Yes. It's you if you wanna get on stages, you need to start creating your own stages. And you do that through podcasting, you do that through webinars. Things that are digital, that are easy. Because it's a webinar, you jump on Zoom, and you have a webinar. It's, like, it's not that hard to do. Podcasting, there's a little bit more to it if you wanna get on all the platforms, but it's a way to create your own stage. And it's a way to prove that you know what you're talking about, and you can speak about it in a way that makes sense and connects.

Sara Lohse [00:11:26]:

And that's gonna get you on on a stage a lot faster than just sending out written pitches.

Sara Payne [00:11:32]:

Yes. Absolutely. So if if a brand is starting from scratch, Sara, what's the first thing they should do to really set themselves up for success, in in producing starting a podcast?

Sara Lohse [00:11:48]:

The first thing is, is before we even talk about this is going to be a podcast, we need to figure out our goal, and we need to figure out what is our ULP. And that's unique listener proposition. And you remember this, we went through this whole exercise with you when we were launching this podcast. What is it about you and your brand and your message that's unique? And that's important whether you're podcasting, blogging, publishing, whatever you're doing, whatever type of thought leadership you're trying to put out there. We have so much information in the world. There's very little that when it comes to data and facts that we can't get from Google. So it's not necessarily you need to start a podcast to teach people about these factual concepts. What is it about you that makes your experience and your perspective on it different and valuable? So thinking about that and what stories that you have and what experiences that you have, that's going to shape all the content that you do moving forward.

Sara Lohse [00:12:48]:

And when you set your goals, then you're able to align it and really build out a strategy that's going to be impactful. So you're not just kind of throwing things out the wall and seeing what sticks.

Sara Payne [00:12:59]:

Yeah. I I love the directness of what you said there, in terms of, you know, what is that unique perspective. And I remember this being the hard part when we started this show. I mean, I knew what I wanted to do in my head. Right? It was this idea in my head, and it takes a lot of hard work to define it extremely well on paper. And extremely well on paper. And and you and Larry were great partners in in helping me do that.

Sara Lohse [00:13:23]:

Yeah. And it's and it's so important, and it's a step that I honestly see people skip all the time. They go straight to the I have a podcast, but they forget the, like, why do I want a podcast? It's not just about having 1. It's about using it and setting it up in a way that's going to have an impact and have like, we talk about ROI and return on investment. But what's the return on impact? What impact is this show going to have?

Sara Payne [00:13:48]:

100%. Yeah. So so let's talk about how to create a podcast that serves the audience while also aligning with brand goals.

Sara Lohse [00:14:02]:

Yeah. I mean, the first step is who is your audience? And you have to really know that. And a lot of the times, the audience part seems like the easy part, but it's not. Because you might be wanting to talk to your target audience as in who it would be your client for your business, or you might wanna be talking to people that could be partners for your business, or it's more broad and it's businesses that you like, it's more of a b to b conversation. Who is it exactly that you're talking to? Who is it that could benefit from your message? And it's not always as obvious. I've had to, like, stop clients in the middle of, like, figuring out what it is. I'm like, this is not what your audience wants, and they realized that their goals and their audiences weren't aligning.

Sara Payne [00:14:52]:

You said earlier, a lot of people skip over the goal setting stage, and I think they skip over the the target audience definition stage stage. Because, again, I think we we think that it's obvious or we sort of take that for granted or it's in our head. But then, you know, there's a lot of assumptions that are being made between the group of people that are involved in in in producing it, and there isn't that real clear filter for topic selection, guest selection, all of the things. And you just just get right down to it, and then perhaps the content isn't really hitting the nail on the head in terms of what that audience really needs. So you're gonna struggle to build that audience over time.

Sara Lohse [00:15:32]:

It's funny. I was just, running a workshop at a conference, for the, the Association For Financial Counseling Planner Education. And the workshop brings everyone through the process that we brought you guys through, basically. It said figuring out what your goals are, who your audience is, what your UVP is, unique value proposition. And I had people come up to me after, like, I was gonna launch my podcast in January. I was ready to go, and then I came to your session, and thanks a lot. I am not ready to go. They had they had skipped all of those steps.

Sara Lohse [00:16:04]:

They just came to, okay. I've got the name, and I'm gonna say this, and here we go, which is fine if you just want a podcast to have a podcast. But if you want a podcast and to reach goals and to make an impact on what you're doing or what your industry is doing, you can't skip the beginning. You have to set the goals. You have to know your audience. You have to figure out what your message is and how it can relate to who you're speaking to. You have to figure out what the why is behind saying, I want a podcast.

Sara Payne [00:16:36]:

100%. And, again, this this is stuff that marketing people marketing leaders know. But, again, I think that there is danger in shoehorning what might be a broader marketing objective into then that just serves your podcast as well. And, actually, you need to really define that. You need to really get in and and figure that out.

Sara Lohse [00:16:57]:

Yeah. We I just had a conversation with a new client. They have 3 target audiences. And she's like, okay, so how can we design a podcast for all of them? And I had to break the news of we can't, because the podcast is going to be like Frankenstein together. Yeah. It's not gonna make sense. So the other step, in addition to starting a podcast, is starting a whole content marketing strategy and plan. So instead of trying to shoehorn all of these audiences into 1 podcast, how do we aim the podcast at 1 audience, but then repurpose that content to reach a different audience? And use, like, this one piece of content that we have, and just tailor it to fit the audiences instead of trying to just have everything talk to everybody.

Sara Payne [00:17:47]:

Yeah. Smart advice. Really smart advice. Another mistake I think people make is thinking, oh, well, this is an owned channel, and we can say whatever we wanna say. And while that's true, most people don't wanna tune in for commercials. Yes.

Sara Lohse [00:18:07]:

If

Sara Payne [00:18:07]:

that was the case, we wouldn't have a fast forward option to get through the commercials on TV. Right? We we would even have an entire streaming channel devoted to commercials. Can you can you imagine just sitting down

Sara Lohse [00:18:21]:

I think it's called, like, the home shopping network.

Sara Payne [00:18:23]:

True. True. True. Click to buy Yes. Yeah.

Sara Lohse [00:18:27]:

My mom my mom would fall asleep to those and then wake up in the middle of the night and order things and then forget. It was hilarious.

Sara Payne [00:18:33]:

But she fell asleep to it. Right? This is my point. Yep. People aren't there. They don't really want that. They're gonna fall asleep. Yes. So my point is is don't pretend that your podcast is about that leadership and then just hit them up with the promotional content about your company.

Sara Payne [00:18:48]:

Right? Don't do the bait and switch. You're not gonna build an effective audience that way. And I don't think it's typically the marketing department that makes that mistake. It's usually the executive team thinking, oh, hey. Let's talk about how great we are. And there's don't get me wrong. There's a time and a place and a way to do that inside of the thought leadership, but you really have to focus the content on serving your audience.

Sara Lohse [00:19:12]:

Say it louder for the people in the back.

Sara Payne [00:19:14]:

I know. Right? And so often, that is solving their problems. Right? I like to think of it like each episode is another problem that you're solving. And maybe it's the same one, but you've got different takes on solving that problem. But, people are not searching for products. They're searching for solutions to their problem. So start there.

Sara Lohse [00:19:35]:

Yeah. I mean, that's a misconception that we see all the time because when we are launching a podcast for a brand or for a business, it's called a branded podcast. But the podcast is not about the brand. It's about the vision and the values behind the brand. It's about serving the clients that you'd serve through your brand. And if you're about to start a podcast and you're the goal that you set is to bring on clients, is to increase sales, don't start a podcast.

Sara Payne [00:20:04]:

Right.

Sara Lohse [00:20:04]:

Because you're starting an infomercial. Like, your goal has to be exactly what you said, to serve an audience, to offer value. And when you do that, you're building trust. You're building relationships. You're building a community. And you become that thought leader. You become that person that's top of mind for what it is you're talking about. So when someone is ready, like, okay, this is what I need, you're who they go to.

Sara Lohse [00:20:28]:

You become that trusted source for that service. You don't have to be selling, and you shouldn't be selling. I've heard people actually give their price list on a podcast. No. Yes.

Sara Payne [00:20:40]:

No. Yes. They like, yes.

Sara Lohse [00:20:43]:

So if you wanna work with us, like, here's our services list, and here I'm like, that's not why we're here. Delete. Yep. No. I agree with you

Sara Payne [00:20:51]:

a 1000%. Yeah. Because if if you are talking about their problem really, really well, they're gonna assume you have that solution, and you're already top of mind for them. And then when they are actually looking to buy that service, they're gonna call you first because you're top of mind.

Sara Lohse [00:21:06]:

Yeah. Another thing with that too is people are afraid to kind of, like, draw back the curtain and talk about how they do things. Mhmm. Because it's like, well, if I tell them how to do it, they'll just do it themselves.

Sara Payne [00:21:19]:

Or I'm giving away my secret sauce or the proprietary Yeah. Yeah.

Sara Lohse [00:21:24]:

No. You're not, though. And, like, if the people who are going to do it themselves, they don't it's because they don't have the budget to pay someone do it. So you're not They

Sara Payne [00:21:33]:

would have done it already. They would have done it already.

Sara Lohse [00:21:36]:

Yeah. Or or they wouldn't have the budget, so they would never have paid you anyway. So who is it hurting if they have a few new ideas to try to implement? But the people who do have the budget to do it, they care more about their time than their money. It's worth more to them. So they why would they try try to learn how to do it themselves and put in all the time and figure out how to do it? Not only just do it, but do it well and do it right, when what you did by telling them how you do it is prove that you know how to do it.

Sara Payne [00:22:08]:

Yes. So well said. Let's talk about selecting a host.

Sara Lohse [00:22:13]:

Pick Sara.

Sara Payne [00:22:16]:

Either Sara. Both Sara.

Sara Lohse [00:22:17]:

Either of

Sara Payne [00:22:17]:

us. I mean, Sara works.

Sara Lohse [00:22:18]:

Me too.

Sara Payne [00:22:21]:

Let's talk about what qualities or skills that brands should be looking for in their host. And and because I've seen one mistake that I've seen companies make is to assume that the leading subject matter expert at their company should be the podcast host. Right? Like, that's just the default. You know? Make it that person. Subject matter expertise is important, but it also needs to overlap with someone who's good at connecting with people, good at natural storytelling, has innate curiosity to ask good questions, and, frankly, a level of charisma in their personality.

Sara Lohse [00:22:53]:

Absolutely. And it kind of, brings back to what you're saying before that, like, the marketers know this, but it's the c suite. Suite. It's the executives that don't necessarily get it, that they want it to be a sales message because we're putting money towards it. We need to see an immediate return. It has to be a marketing channel. They're probably not the best people to put in that position Because it's hard to change that mindset from this, like, I need to bring in business to I need to offer value. So a lot of the times, the person that's going to be a better fit is probably someone in the marketing department, the person in charge of branding, the people that are in the more creative spaces.

Sara Payne [00:23:31]:

Because Yeah. And then and then some of the other experts within the company could be guests. Yeah. Right? Where you you you take, you know, different opportunities to draw out that expertise.

Sara Lohse [00:23:42]:

Yeah. And it might not be the most senior level person that's gonna be the best at it because they're gonna have that curse of knowledge. They're going to know something so well and so deeply that it's really hard to dial it back. There's been times that I'm talking to somebody about what they do in their industry, and I have to be like, okay. Stop. Picture me as a 5 year old, and now say it again.

Sara Payne [00:24:06]:

Yes.

Sara Lohse [00:24:07]:

Because you you're just kind of programmed.

Sara Payne [00:24:09]:

Too close.

Sara Lohse [00:24:10]:

Yeah. You're programmed to talk about it at the level that you would talk about it in, like, a board meeting. And with your peers, you get this. But if we're listening to your podcast, we don't get it.

Sara Payne [00:24:19]:

And then some of that pile it back. Some of that board, presence comes with a level of polish and varnish that doesn't play as well in this format either. Right? We we need you to come in as a human

Sara Lohse [00:24:30]:

Yes.

Sara Payne [00:24:31]:

As not as an executive. Right? And to be able and this is what I mean by that that connection with people and this just being real versus delivering a key message, if you will.

Sara Lohse [00:24:41]:

Yeah. And this isn't true for every company. I mean, I've produced podcasts for CEOs of companies, and they're a lot of fun, and they have a personality. But it just depends on the person. If you are that person, do it. But if you're not, and you know that you're not, and you can and this isn't what you wanna do, it's not worth your time, like, when you could be spent focusing on other things that are more important, hand it off to someone in marketing or in client relations, someone who has the love and the creativity and the passion for it because they're also just gonna represent your brand so well because they love it so much. Yeah. Absolutely.

Sara Lohse [00:25:17]:

What they're passionate about.

Sara Payne [00:25:19]:

I I wanna pivot to talk about, guesting on a podcast. Right? Because not every brand is going to decide to produce their own podcast, but they may decide to, you know, pursue a strategy where they wanna get their subject matter experts on a bunch of other people's podcasts. But before we do that, I do think it's really important that we acknowledge that people need to make an investment in the technology to produce an excellent podcast. Right? You can have a great expert, a great host, and great content, but it can all be wrecked by not having high quality content that allows that to get out there.

Sara Lohse [00:25:57]:

Yeah. The first thing I always tell people when they wanna guess on a podcast is go buy a microphone. And if someone just tells me like, oh, I'm about to be a guest. I'm like, do you have a microphone? I don't care about anything else you have to say until you tell me if you have a microphone.

Sara Payne [00:26:09]:

Yes.

Sara Lohse [00:26:09]:

Because we spend so much time put like, trying to produce a well done show, a high quality show. And it makes it so hard when the guest comes in completely unprepared. And I've had, guests record from the waiting room of a Jiffy Lube No. On their phone.

Sara Payne [00:26:28]:

No. And did you get the view from their chin up, you know, the nostril? It was back oh

Sara Lohse [00:26:35]:

my god. I we would've. It was back when it was audio only.

Sara Payne [00:26:38]:

Okay. Okay. Thank you. Sure they got

Sara Lohse [00:26:40]:

the yeah. They got the email of, like, oh my gosh. The file was corrupted. I don't know what happened. So sorry. It can't release. Which is the podcast producer's way of saying you this was not good and we're not gonna put it on air.

Sara Payne [00:26:53]:

Yeah. So invest in technology, folks. And, if you don't have someone on your marketing team that can do the back end, production for you, hire producers. Look up Larry and Sara. Hire producers. They'll take care of that for you. So let's talk about guesting. What's the most important thing that a spokesperson can do to prepare for being a guest on a podcast?

Sara Lohse [00:27:13]:

That is a very multi step long answer, but to and it's to make it simple. Well, the first is to have a goal and to know what your goal is. It's the same as going into launch a podcast. Why do you wanna be on a podcast? And again, if your goal is I wanna increase sales or I wanna bring in clients, I wanna sell products or sell books, don't do it. Yep. Because you're going to be filming an infomercial. So make sure that your goal is I want to share this information. I wanna share this value.

Sara Lohse [00:27:45]:

I wanna talk about this thing I'm passionate about. And that is the biggest piece of it, really. Because if you go on a podcast and start pushing sales messages, you've just lost the show. There's they're not gonna release it. The host just wasted their time. The team wasted

Sara Payne [00:28:00]:

their time. But if they call you and tell you they had a technical problem with you. So If

Sara Lohse [00:28:06]:

if they're if they're chicken like I am, because I'm not brave enough to be like, oh, no. We just didn't like it. I I will lie. But they that that really is the first piece is making sure that your plan is to lead with value. And then have a way that you can still turn into a business opportunity, and that comes in at the end. So at the end of every podcast, most podcasts, the host will say, how can people get in touch with you or learn more, work with you? That is your sales opportunity. That is the moment when you tell them how they can work with you. You don't give your prices lists and all of that, but you tell them where they can find you.

Sara Lohse [00:28:46]:

And what you should do is have that be a lead magnet. So Yes. Have something yeah. Have a way to actually capture those listeners and continue that conversation. So be creative and create lead magnets. Have them be basically, like, the next step in that conversation. So, yeah, if you wanna learn more about this or take a deeper dive into what we talked about, go to this URL and download my ebook on this. And when I do that, I have it embedded on just a landing page on my website.

Sara Lohse [00:29:19]:

So I can even say, and while you're there, you'll see my contact info, my socials, like, everything will be there because it's on my website. But I'm sending them directly to something that just gives them more value.

Sara Payne [00:29:30]:

Love that. Love that. Such great advice. I wanna share a couple of tips, as well for folks. Listen to some other episodes that the podcast, has produced. It's gonna allow you to get to know the host better. It's gonna get allow you to understand the format and know kinda what you're getting into, what questions you might be asked. I I often will advise clients to anticipate questions you might be asked, but absolutely do not come in scripted because people can smell that coming from a mile away, and that is it doesn't work in this format.

Sara Payne [00:30:04]:

We talked about it earlier. This is meant to be authentic and genuine. Right? Kinda have an outline of the main points that you wanna make. Think about what you're gonna be asked, and think about how those things flow together naturally, but don't over prepare because it's gonna come across scripted.

Sara Lohse [00:30:20]:

Yeah. I don't even like thinking of it as an interview. I feel like when you think of it as an interview, it's like it just feels uncomfortable. It's like a it's a job interview or something, and you have to get the get the right answers.

Sara Payne [00:30:32]:

It's a test. And there's a right or wrong.

Sara Lohse [00:30:35]:

Yeah. And it's just like, okay. Here's the answers to that next question. That's not what this is. This is a conversation.

Sara Payne [00:30:41]:

Oh, I

Sara Lohse [00:30:42]:

love that. Yeah. You have to be going in, like, I'm ready to have a conversation about this topic, and then you just talk.

Sara Payne [00:30:49]:

Oh, so I could say it's kind of like you're building a friendship. I I I don't mean to throw around friendship like I consider that every new person I meet on the street as an automatic friend of mine. Just more of you spend 30 minutes together, and you're gonna know a heck of a lot more about who that other person is at the end of it. Right? And so if you think of it as that conversation connection and a relationship builder, to your point. It's like, we just happen to be recording this conversation.

Sara Lohse [00:31:16]:

Yes. And it really should be about that relationship. Like, you're not only doing this for the audience, you're doing this for the show and for the host. And the worst thing that you can do when you wanna be a podcast guest is make it transactional. That is like, we we hate that as host when you just come on. Okay. Here's here's my spiel. Here's how to reach me.

Sara Lohse [00:31:37]:

K. Bye. Yeah. Like, no. This is a relationship. I want you to continue to interact with me. I want you to continue to support my show and my brand so that I can continue to support your show and your brand. And the more you do that, the more you're, like, reaching out and set and celebrating that.

Sara Lohse [00:31:54]:

Like, I'm gonna be on this show, and look at this person that I'm gonna talk to and all of that. The more we'll promote your episode. Because we if we're excited about it because you're excited about it, we're gonna be sharing it a whole lot more than if you just showed up, did your thing, and left.

Sara Payne [00:32:10]:

A 1000%. That's such a great point is that when any episode of any podcast goes out, the producers of that, the host of that are gonna be promoting it. But they love when the guests are promoting it. And this is the reciprocal. Right? You can even do guest swap. Right? You go on someone else's podcast. They come on yours. And it's just this great relational way to be giving something back to each other from from a a marketing perspective.

Sara Lohse [00:32:43]:

Yeah. People ask me all the time, like, what's the best gift you can give a host for bringing you on their show? And, yeah, we like gifts. Like, I have a mug right here from a podcast I was on, and, like, that's great. But at the same time, the best gift you can give us is promote the show and share the episode and talk about it. And not even just your episode. Another episode comes out that you're not on, share that too. Just be become one of their cheerleaders. Become someone in their network.

Sara Lohse [00:33:12]:

Become like, there's so many people that I know through podcasting that I've never met before. But Yes. They are they are my cheerleaders. I'm their cheerleaders. They're on the acknowledgments page of my book because of how much they support me, and I've never met them. They live in Canada or something.

Sara Payne [00:33:27]:

I did, in October, actually meet someone I'd had on the show who I'd never met in person, and she well, she greeted me with a hug. Yes. Right? It's like we have this whole relationship through the podcast, and she gave me a hug. Like, that was that was kind of mind blowing to me.

Sara Lohse [00:33:46]:

Well, it's funny because when as podcast listeners, one of the reasons podcasting is so powerful is because it has the power to build relationships. But if you're if you're a listener to a podcast and you listen to it religiously and every single week, you feel like you know the host. You do. Even you you're not even on the show, but you feel like you know the host. So it's that effect, but on steroids when you're the one actually having the conversation. And Absolutely. I mean, we open up to podcast hosts more than most people in the professional setting. I'll go on a show thinking I'm talking about podcasting, and it's a deep dive into my child trauma and, like, what ADHD hasn't has impacted my brand and all of these things that I'm like, I don't talk about this in a regular meeting, but Yeah.

Sara Lohse [00:34:30]:

I'm talking about this to a stranger who lives in the UK. Yeah. Wow. It's a different type of connection.

Sara Payne [00:34:36]:

Absolutely. Absolutely. Well, Larry's gonna kill us if we don't wrap this up. So us us too, Sara, could chat all day. Let's let's Seriously. Transition into a a quick fire segment before we get in.

Sara Lohse [00:34:48]:

Do a quick fire.

Sara Payne [00:34:49]:

Yeah. Let's do it.

Sara Lohse [00:34:50]:

Yay. Okay.

Sara Payne [00:34:52]:

What is the hardest part of creating a great podcast episode?

Sara Lohse [00:34:57]:

The hardest part for each episode is having something unique of value to bring. Especially, if you've been hosting the show for a while or it's a solo show that you don't have guests on. Like, my show is called Branded, and we it's me and Larry co hosted together. We'll be sitting there before recording, like, alright. We'll have we've already talked about this. Now, what do we talk about? No. We talked about that already. So you have to really take the time to think about what messages that you're trying to get out there, and what different perspectives you can lend to it, and always be giving some type of unique that piece of value so that every episode is worth listening to.

Sara Payne [00:35:35]:

Love that. In one word, what makes a podcast successful? Authenticity. Love it. I agree with that one. Who is one of the greatest podcast hosts that you listen to for inspiration for yourself?

Sara Lohse [00:35:51]:

Sara Lohse. No. I'm kidding. Joe Saul Sehy. He is the host of Stacking Benjamins. He is the first show that I guested on. He is he wrote the foreword for my book. He is a huge, huge part of what how I do and why I do what I do.

Sara Lohse [00:36:08]:

Just amazing all all around guy.

Sara Payne [00:36:10]:

And similar question, little different. Outside of the podcast that you produce, what's one of your favorite podcasts to listen to?

Sara Lohse [00:36:18]:

Okay. So it's it's called Potterless. And

Sara Payne [00:36:22]:

I I don't know that one.

Sara Lohse [00:36:23]:

I know all of your episodes. It's like, what is the what what podcast do you listen to for inspiration and for for your industry and all of that? Potterless is about Harry Potter, and it's like a 20 something year old guy who's never read or watched them, reading them for the first time and talking about it. And it is hilarious, and it feeds it feeds my little inner nerd. And it is the 1st podcast I ever listened to, and to this day, one of the few that I actually listen to regularly.

Sara Payne [00:36:50]:

Oh, wow. That's so cool. So weird and and so niche, but I love it. Same chance. It's fantastic. What's your one word for 2025? For your own personal professional life, what's your what's your one word?

Sara Lohse [00:37:06]:

Unapologetic. Oh,

Sara Payne [00:37:08]:

that's such a great one. Awesome. Well, thanks so much for being here, Sara. This was really fun. And, of course, I've gotta ask you, how can listeners get in touch with you?

Sara Lohse [00:37:19]:

Oh, I didn't even know you're gonna ask. I didn't see this coming. I'm not prepared. We mentioned my book. It's called Open This Book, and it's all about storytelling. If you want to start figuring out what your story is and how you can tell it so that you could be on podcast or on stages, I did take all of the writing prompts from it and put it into a journal. It's downloadable for free at open this journal.com. And while you're there, you'll see all my socials, my contact info.

Sara Lohse [00:37:44]:

You can get in touch with me, and I would love to hear from you.

Sara Payne [00:37:47]:

That was you nailed it. That was a great example of how to answer that question. I hope everyone took notes. I was gonna do another plug for your book and tell people to go to Amazon. Put it in their cart. Buy it so they can get all these great there it is, folks. There it is. Put it in your cart.

Sara Payne [00:38:05]:

Buy it. Read it this weekend. No. I you nailed it, and you were that was a great example for how people can, take that opportunity to sell at the end of a podcast. I've done this before. I know. Right? Well, folks, thanks for joining us. And if you enjoyed the conversation today, do us a favor and subscribe wherever you get your podcasts.

Sara Payne [00:38:26]:

Thanks for being part of the Health Marketing Collective, where strong leadership meets marketing excellence, because the future of health care depends on it. We'll see you next time.